Receiver and Karaoke

[paradox]

Hi,

First a little background - I'm currently living in Taiwan. I'm looking at upgrading my cheap and nasty AV equipment into something a little better. Specifically I'm looking for HDTV and digital surround sound. My wife on the other hand is looking for one thing only - karaoke!

To dip my feet in the karaoke waters I downloaded a few songs into my PC and plugged in a mic. It sounded dreadful! The PC just couldn't amplify the mic loud enough and the whole thing sounded flat.

So, after doing a bit of research I headed down to the shops to look at receivers. The shop assistant told me a very interesting tale - he said that all the big brand name receivers were terrible for karaoke - they just were not designed with that in mind and didn't have the necessary features. Instead he showed me a bunch of 'no name' made in Taiwan receivers, that all had two or three microphone inputs on the front as well as a whole bunch of controls for the mic.

We plugged a mic into one and had a play. It had three important microphone controls - delay, echo and repeat. With these controls turned off, it sounded flat, just like the sound out of my PC. With them all turned up mid way it produced a sound that my wife dubbed 'perfect' and 'exactly like it should sound'.

The problem is when I took a look at the back panel of these taiwaniese receivers they were somewhat ... lacking, to say the least No digital inputs, one or two sets of AV input and outputs for a few speakers. Frankly I just don't trust them to be any good at all.

So, my questions to everybody: What are these magical delay, echo and repeat controls? Is it possible to find a good receiver with a few microphone inputs on the front and the correct controls? Was the saleman telling the truth when he said that the big brand name receivers don't to karaoke well at all?

I would appreciate any guidance people can give!

 

[MDS]

So, my questions to everybody: What are these magical delay, echo and repeat controls? Is it possible to find a good receiver with a few microphone inputs on the front and the correct controls? Was the saleman telling the truth when he said that the big brand name receivers don't to karaoke well at all?

Consider what Karaoke is about: Mixing your voice (supplied by the Microphone) with background music in real-time. A receiver is not designed for that - it is not a digital audio workstation. Karaoke may be very big in Taiwan and hence receiver manufacturers there are probably catering to its popularity by adding some rudimentary mixing features to their receivers.

Delay, Echo, and Repeat all sound like parameters for Reverb. Briefly reverb is achieved by mixing a 'dry' signal (the original unaltered part - in this case the music) with a 'wet' signal (the other signal you are mixing with the dry - in this case your voice from the microphone), after some specified Delay time. Echo and Repeat are likely parameters that affect how big of a 'slice' of the wet is mixed with the dry and how many times to do it before moving on to the next time. Longer delays create a longer reverb 'tail'; ie the degree of echo is longer and it sounds like notes are sustained longer.

--------------dry-------- + --------
         ^                         |
         |----------wet----------- |

Receivers like Yamaha that have two zillion DSP modes with dozens of user adjustable parameters are doing that kind of thing (reverb is just one type of processing) but they do not allow you to mix another source. So yes, I think the salesman is mostly correct that receivers aren't made with Karaoke in mind.

 

[Nick250]

Given the popularity of Karaoke in your neck of the woods, I wonder it there is a sound card with Karaoke being one of it's design parameters.

Nick

 

[masak_aer]

I tried in the past as well to look for a decent receiver with the Mic input to no avail. I agree with the salesman in this case. My suggestion is to buy a cheapo dvd-player with mic inputs just to satisfy your wifey hunger for Karaoke. It works well. Use it only for karaoke. It can be had for less than $100.

 

[gmichael]

If you pick up one of these "magic mics" any receiver will do what your wifey is looking for. My wifey is from the Philippines where karaoke is a way of life. She loves her mic. (pls. don't go there)

http://www.acekaraoke.com/magmic.html?wcw=google&engine=adwords!1042&keyword=(magic+mic)&match_type=&gclid=CNW31bCRqYgCFQ-4WAodPRXV6g

There may be exceptions, but for the most part, the Japanese models work better than the Chinese models, but cost way more. We picked up a Korean model (forget which one right now) that is the best of both worlds. It has 5000 songs to choose from. Over 1000 of them are in Tagalog. I found it worth while to dig into.

Added: Wifey has a bunch of her friends come over. I set up the system so that the words to the songs show up on a std def. 27 inch TV. Then the camcorder is set up so that a picture of them singing is projected onto the 106 screen behind them. They really get into it. Later on I'll play it back for them (recorded on the DVR) to see how they did.

 

[gmichael]

Found it! Here is the one we bought. Got the chip upgrade and the second mic.

http://store.singfirst.us/ko20wi30buin.html

 

[paradox]

Hey,
Thanks for your help everybody! I also took a look through all the reviewed receivers and I didn't see any that have microphone input. In the store they also had what looked like microphone pre-amps with all the reverb controls so I will look into those in a bit more detail. If they don't work out a cheap DVD player is looking likely.

My wife likes the idea of the magic mikes but at $289 they are getting into the price range of some of those cheap receivers with all the karaoke controls in them. I guess the main price component is the song collection though, so it still might be worth while looking into.

 

[bongobob]

I tried in the past as well to look for a decent receiver with the Mic input to no avail. I agree with the salesman in this case. My suggestion is to buy a cheapo dvd-player with mic inputs just to satisfy your wifey hunger for Karaoke. It works well. Use it only for karaoke. It can be had for less than $100.

My Kebao DVD player bought in HK has front mic inputs and claims to be set up for karaoke. Cost was about $35.00
US. Has optical, SPDIF and component out. Plays everything I throw at it too...

 

[gmichael]

Hey,
Thanks for your help everybody! I also took a look through all the reviewed receivers and I didn't see any that have microphone input. In the store they also had what looked like microphone pre-amps with all the reverb controls so I will look into those in a bit more detail. If they don't work out a cheap DVD player is looking likely.

My wife likes the idea of the magic mikes but at $289 they are getting into the price range of some of those cheap receivers with all the karaoke controls in them. I guess the main price component is the song collection though, so it still might be worth while looking into.

Just so you know, these "magic mics" use normal composite cables & connectors. Most any receiver these days has inputs to match up front and in the back. The mics also have controls for reverb etc built in. And then you get to use them with a nice receiver instead of a cheap one.