Recapping my Athena floorstanders..?

[Jeff5347]

Whats up guys. So i was reading that older speakers ( mine are 18 years old, AS f2 Athen te hs) that caps and / or crossovers deteriorate after times. I was curious on replacing or if they need or should be given the speakers are 20 yrs old. One cap is a 6.8uf and the other i cant quite make out. I was looking at caps on PE and there is foil and film caps and metalized. Is it worth it to change the caps and/or redo the whole crossover. Looking at the inductors i have no clue on the rsting as there is no writing on them or anywhere

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[Swerd]

So i was reading that older speakers ( mine are 18 years old, AS f2 Athen te hs) that caps and / or crossovers deteriorate after times. I was curious on replacing or if they need or should be given the speakers are 20 yrs old. One cap is a 6.8uf and the other i cant quite make out. I was looking at caps on PE and there is foil and film caps and metalized. Is it worth it to change the caps and/or redo the whole crossover. Looking at the inductors i have no clue on the rsting as there is no writing on them or anywhere

The two blue upright caps in your photos are both non-polar electrolytic (NPE) caps. NPE caps are cheap, and some, but not all, have been known to gradually fail with age. In your photos, I see no bulging on top and no sign of leaking by either cap. In short, I see nothing that might suggest these caps are about to fail. I would leave your crossovers as they are.

To replace caps, you must learn the capacitance values of both caps. The Dayton house brand of metalized polypropylene (MPP) caps are good quality, are relatively inexpensive, and they will never fail with age. Be aware that MPP caps will be physically larger than NPE caps. You'll have to estimate the sizes of those blue caps you now have.

For example, PE's NPE 6.8 µF cap is 10 mm diameter × 24 mm long and costs $0.63. In contrast, the Dayton MPP 6.8 µF cap is 18 mm diameter × 45 mm long and costs $2.81. Both are inexpensive, but you may find it difficult to place the larger MPP caps on your existing crossover board. You may have to add extended lead wires, or build new and larger boards to hold your crossovers.

Don't waste money on other more expensive caps, such as boutique brands or film & foil caps. Despite much unwarranted chatter about "better sounding" caps on the internet, there is no evidence at all that they perform any better.

The other components of audio crossover, resistors and inductors, rarely if ever need replacement. Unless they are visibly charred or broken, leave them alone.

 

[Jeff5347]

I wasnt able to get a good look at the 2nd cap as i didnt want to move the speaker. That said i was watching a ps audio video regarding caps and he said the film and foil sound much better than the NPE, would the poly make an audible change?. Now i cant go and put $64 apiece film caps x4 in the speakers as i may as well save for better and find some from marketplace. That said i love to diy and tinker. So i dont mind shelling, what 20 bucks, for 4 caps to replace. I get as well you say the NPE have no buldging or leaking but im curious if i would hear a difference in sound. Im no critical listener but if there is a somewhat audible differnce i wouldnt mind replacing them. Also i know they're bigger so i would just get some left over wire and zip tie the caps to the xover board.

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[Pogre]

Well there's part of the problem right there. Watching videos posted by Paul at PS Audio preaching power conditioners and expensive interconnects will send you down rabbit holes and have you wasting money on things that don't make much, or any, difference in your sound quality. I agree with Boredsys, nothing in those pics hints at anything needing to be replaced.

 

[Jeff5347]

Lol i forgot to put that i watxh him merely for the entertainment purposes. Alor of stuff i just shrug off. So im all opi ions here just let things be? I can do that just need to find a project to get my hands into that is not pricey

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[Pogre]

Lol i forgot to put that i watxh him merely for the entertainment purposes. Alor of stuff i just shrug off. So im all opi ions here just let things be? I can do that just need to find a project to get my hands into that is not pricey

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If they sound good I wouldn't mess with them. If you're wanting to get your hands dirty you could look into some kits and build your own. You can get a much higher quality speaker for less money that way. I've been considering doing the same.

 

[TLS Guy]

This seems to come up often. So lets look at the issues.

First the inductors. They will not deteriorate with age. The problem with inductors is DC resistance. Commercial designs tend to use too lower gauge of wire. This causes too high a DC resistance, upsetting driver response especially with four ohm drivers as the DC resistance is a higher percentage of the impedance.

However using a better inductor may not help you as the designer may have adjusted the design to account for this. I don't think it ever really does, but the trouble is if you use a better inductor you risk making matters worse or at least different unless you are prepared to remodel and measure the crossover.

This problem of high series resistance is one of the reasons I will NEVER design a passive crossover below 400 Hz. The inductors and caps are too big. If I need a lower crossover then that speaker will be active period. I have few really hard and fast rules but that is one of them.

Caps have different issues. NPEs can deteriorate over time. Non electrolytic types generally do not.

Now the next issue is worse which is the ESR value or forward resistance. NPEs have higher ESR than polypropylene ones say, which are good value. For higher values commercial designs use NPEs because of size and costs.

Unfortunately the speed of conduction for NPEs decreases with frequency. So they are in that sense non linear. So it has become fashionable to bypass non NPE caps of 1% the value of the NPE to help ameliorate this.

Again attempts to adjust the crossover design for this fact are often made. And so changing the cap to an non NPE may not help without a redesign.

I personally do not use NPEs in my passive crossovers ever. However it again makes the case for not using a passive design for crossover points below 400 Hz.

The bottom line on this is making the correct decision regarding crossover upgrades is problematic.

Probably the best advice is to purchase the Dayton woofer tester to measure the caps, or purchase a multimeter that will measure the cap and only replace if it is out of spec..

It is this commercial restraint on manufacturers that is just one, but a really good argument for DIY speakers.

 

[Ernie Schmuntz]

Whats up guys. So i was reading that older speakers ( mine are 18 years old, AS f2 Athen te hs) that caps and / or crossovers deteriorate after times. I was curious on replacing or if they need or should be given the speakers are 20 yrs old. One cap is a 6.8uf and the other i cant quite make out. I was looking at caps on PE and there is foil and film caps and metalized. Is it worth it to change the caps and/or redo the whole crossover. Looking at the inductors i have no clue on the rsting as there is no writing on them or anywhere

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I picked up a mint pair of JBL-46. After, I recapped the crossovers. The top end and mids really show a significant benefit. They are smoother, more detailed plus it was really fun to do. I used Solen caps. The low end for an 8” woofer is really solid. They sound better than my L-3 pair.

 

[OldSchool Days]

Yes Solen way to go Specially 400 V ones sound changes and much better then 250 V.