Reason I don't (sometimes) recommend integrated amps with build in DAC edit: for use with their AVR and for 2 Ch stereo music enjoyment

[PENG]

Here's just one obvious reason:

NEOHIPO DC10 Stereo DAC Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

For <$50, you get real "hifi" specs that puts many $500 (or more, even much more.. think Yamaha's A-S701, A-S801, other others) integrated amps build in dacs to shame.

Full disclosure: I am not against integrated amps, have/had a few myself, but... And, in some applications, integrated amps are great.

Even a cheap dongle type will do a good/better job if you use it with an AVR's analog input, direct mode to bypass the AVR's ADC/DSP/DAC block.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I have to say this is somewhat misleading as it paints an incomplete picture. This device presents excellent measurements (especially at its price) but lacks pre-amp and amp analog sections/functions. It's pure DAC. It doesn't even have a volume control
Integrated amps have their roles, even if their SINAD is a tad worse.

 

[dolynick]

That looks like a solid little DAC for a nice little price. Thanks for sharing.

Even a cheap dongle type will do a good/better job if you use it with an AVR's analog input, direct mode to bypass the AVR's ADC/DSP/DAC block.

This I don't think is quite so simple. It depends on what you're connecting it to. Not all modern receivers even keep an analog signal anymore and will ADC internally. Even if you do have one that does have a pure analog pass-through, then you're giving up any room correction as that also requires an ADC - DAC conversion anyways - or rather, I don't see the point of using the external DAC if you're going to end up using the internal for RC. You did specifically say integrated amplifier though, and those have traditionally not had RC in the past, but it is becoming a more common feature on them now.

I have one system where I run it straight analog from the DAC (because I wanted to preserve native DSD and just try it) and I am generally happy with the sound from the system. So no RC is definitely not the end of the world. It does make something a little more expensive like the new Topping D50 III with PEQ built in a compelling option for older integrated amps.

 

[PENG]

Sorry guys, I thought I was clear, but now I realized it was not clear enough, even though I tried, by stating:

"..Even a cheap dongle type will do a good/better job if you use it with an AVR's analog input, direct mode to bypass the AVR's ADC/DSP/DAC block..."

So, my whole point was based on using something like that (ie. such a cheap DAC including the dongle style ones) with an AVR, instead add an integrated that has functions and features that may overlaps with their AVRs.

We all know forum members often asked if they should us an integrated amp with their AVR, with/without the so called HT bypass, and if I were to say yes, I would suggest they get one without build in dac, but buy a separate dac. That's really a point, I should included more details.

And, I would always recommend integrated amps (in the <1-2K price range) that is more of the old traditional style that does not include digital inputs, for the very reason I tabled.

Note: I also know that many members will not consider using an AVR for 2 ch stereo use, so that's that..

I edited the thread title, hopefully it is clear now, if not, please let me know so I can edit it further as I don't want to mislead anyone whether they agree with my suggestions or not.

 

[PENG]

That looks like a solid little DAC for a nice little price. Thanks for sharing.



This I don't think is quite so simple. It depends on what you're connecting it to. Not all modern receivers even keep an analog signal anymore and will ADC internally. Even if you do have one that does have a pure analog pass-through, then you're giving up any room correction as that also requires an ADC - DAC conversion anyways - or rather, I don't see the point of using the external DAC if you're going to end up using the internal for RC. You did specifically say integrated amplifier though, and those have traditionally not had RC in the past, but it is becoming a more common feature on them now.

I have one system where I run it straight analog from the DAC (because I wanted to preserve native DSD and just try it) and I am generally happy with the sound from the system. So no RC is definitely not the end of the world. It does make something a little more expensive like the new Topping D50 III with PEQ built in a compelling option for older integrated amps.

Agreed, it always depends.. I never meant to say every AVR user who's considering added an integrated amp to the same system to go with a cheap separate DAC instead, but many of them can benefit from doing so and save money at the same time, again, it depends on the individual's use case/purposes.

 

[Trebdp83]

Actually, you were pretty clear. No misunderstanding here.

 

[dolynick]

Actually, you were pretty clear. No misunderstanding here.

Agreed. The post was good. I was getting a bit picky and into the weeds in my reply. Someone who is at that level of concern/fussiness probably wouldn't really be the target of the intended advice anyways.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Most "integrated amps" these days look more like receivers with DAC, USB, and HDMI.

If I had $15K pocket change, I might get a $15K Marantz or $10K Yamaha integrated amp. Otherwise, I would just use an AVR.