Rear surrounds layout

[QED]

Is it worth using rear surrounds if my seating is only about 18" from the rear wall? Or should I just stick to 5.1?

My room is about 12.5' X 18' (7'8" ceiling height) with the display centered on the long wall...front speakers about 8' apart.

Thanks for any help

 

[Dapper Dan]

Go all the way....!

Is it worth using rear surrounds if my seating is only about 18" from the rear wall? Or should I just stick to 5.1?

My room is about 12.5' X 18' (7'8" ceiling height) with the display centered on the long wall...front speakers about 8' apart.

Thanks for any help

I assume by your question no rear surround speakers have been selected as yet Anyhow the simple answer to your question is........Hell Yes!

The real answer to this is to try different speakers in the 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 configurations, and see if there are any noticeable audio differences and which config’ sounds the best. BTW... select say two or three short passages from films that you know really well and replay them repeatedly so that you are always listening to the same sample, that way you will get the idea as to which config sounds the best and most satisfying. Using too many different passages only make it more difficult in the evaluation process!

For the speakers, try direct radiating, bi/dipole if you can get a hold of them. Ask some good retailers that may let you try some at home before you buy them (in order to determine which are the most suitable). Maybe a friend may let you use theirs for the weekend.

My room is very similar to your dimensions, albeit, the ceiling height is 9’.

I found that using dipoles for the rears (back wall) pointed downwards between the wall and ceiling gave a really good result (A compromise in ceiling mounting or just wall mounting)…I am still trying the sides, I feel that the dipoles once again are the way to go here, however they are a little forward of the listening position.

Try moving the seating position about 2~3’ away from the rear wall, and see if that makes a difference! You may or may not be surprised by the effect this can make.

Consider room treatment with some sound absorbent tiles and make the room “relatively” flat in response. Again there are many good articles here to read, what about DIY if cost is a factor.

Check out Loudspeaker Placement Guide here, it’s got some good stuff in it.

The idea is to experiment and try some conventional and maybe some not so conventional solutions to a problem, its surprising what you can come up with.

Go ahead, live a little….its part of the fun of making it “Your Theatre”

Dapper Dan…

 

[Dapper Dan]

Oh, I forget to mention, make sure that you use a film that has the rear channel (ES) encoded...like “Pirates of the Caribbean”…

Dapper Dan…

 

[QED]

Thanks for the reply

I guess I wasn't clear that no speakers have been purchased yet as I'm still in the construction phase.

I'm mostly concerned that the rears will be too close to someone's head and will be annoying, so I'm considering using side surrounds only.

I don't think I can get away with more than 18" or so from the rear wall due to WAF...she already gave me the hairy eyeball over that distance, also the back of the seating would then only be 9.5' from the front wall which would be a little crowded.

 

[krzywica]

I agree with dapper on this one I prefer dipoles over direct speakers for the rear's. Even though the gurus at Lucas Film say different. My back wall is about a foot from my couch, I can still tell a huge diffence over 5.1, especially if your 6th channel is discrete. I probably notice it the most for ambience, ie rustleing wind, chirping cricets, or what have you. It really helps fill up the room completely, especially if you not in the primary listening position, you will still get that surround experience.

 

[Buckle-meister]

My back wall is about a foot from my couch, I can still tell a huge diffence over 5.1, especially if your 6th channel is discrete.

My own back wall is around 2 feet from the rear wall. I have never considered getting surround-back speakers because I was under the impression that they would be far too close to me. However, if I have interpreted you correctly, you seem to be saying that it is ok.

Is that true? Would they not be considered too close at only 1 or 2 feet from the listening position?

Regards

 

[supervij]

Well, if they're dipoles/bipoles, maybe not. I mean, the sound isn't going directly towards you, it's going in two opposite directions, and then the reflections will be coming back to you moments later. In other words, while the speaker is physically close to you (one or two feet), the sound is travelling from the speaker to the side wall, bouncing back, and then coming toward you (six or seven feet maybe). Should be fine, I think.

cheers,
supervij

 

[Dapper Dan]

Thanks for the reply

I guess I wasn't clear that no speakers have been purchased yet as I'm still in the construction phase.

I'm mostly concerned that the rears will be too close to someone's head and will be annoying, so I'm considering using side surrounds only.

I don't think I can get away with more than 18" or so from the rear wall due to WAF...she already gave me the hairy eyeball over that distance, also the back of the seating would then only be 9.5' from the front wall which would be a little crowded.

Hairy eyeball...LOL

QED, that’s what I meant about experimenting with what will/wont work.

Here is another take on the situation, if you move the side surrounds a little higher than recommended and tilt them downwards to the centre of seating position, and then (this is an unconventional approach), suspend a single rear centre speaker from the ceiling, hard up against the rear wall, pointing directly downwards, (maybe even slightly tilted forward to the seating position) you would get a really nice balance. You could also place the rear centre speaker 2 feet ahead of the rear wall and bounce the sound from the wall to the listening position…(its been done before!). It’s only a suggestion but it may work. Just because it’s not the “norm” doesn’t mean it can’t work...Try 6.1 and 7.1 configurations (I personally feel that 6.1 would suffice...but hey try it and see what you think?)

Well, if they're dipoles/bipoles, maybe not. I mean, the sound isn't going directly towards you, it's going in two opposite directions, and then the reflections will be coming back to you moments later. In other words, while the speaker is physically close to you (one or two feet), the sound is travelling from the speaker to the side wall, bouncing back, and then coming toward you (six or seven feet maybe). Should be fine, I think.

Agree whole heartedly; thats why I found the dipoleside surronds to be better suited in the small rooom, (personal preferance), again consider trying a direct radiating rear centre as well as dipoles to see which one you prefer…you may even be able to move your couch/seats back a few more inches (even all the way to the back wall perhaps!) to regain more forward space with this approach!

Once you find the happy medium, your set, and you will enjoy your theatre more for the extra effort. Might be impressive, might even set some new trends in speaker placement….

Happy Trails,

Dapper Dan…

 

[brian32672]

Instead of 7.1, maybe consider 6.1 and just get a center channel for the rear. Seating 18" away, but use the rear center high and angled down. You will probably need to cut the speaker by -2 or -3db to compensate for it being to loud. But IMO, it would be worth it.
Just go look at some of the members systems. Wow, some of them have the side surrounds almost resting on the couch.
I have a 7.1 setup, also have had a 5.1 and 6.1 setup. I truly feel if the receiver has the capability for 6.1 processing, then that would be the minimal I could ever recommend for anyone.
BTW, I have a center speaker for sale at a great price. If anything, at the price I am selling, it may be worth a try for you. If you feel that the sound is not right, (being to close), then you could keep the center as a backup, or sell it. You would not loose any money. The one I have does have a pretty good wide dispersion. Just look at sell your gear, its the XC-9.. I may even do a better deal...

EDIT::: Link here http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13066
BTW, I almost always throw in a bonus. You can ask Spiffyfast, Buckeye, Malvado, Takeereasy, GaryZ06, Matt34, etc...

 

[majorloser]

My only question is, "Can the back wall accomodate in-wall speakers?"

You can still run the polar speakers on the sides and have the rear channels in the wall (or ceiling if needed). If you do install in-walls, just make sure they are far enough off the ground, say 5 to 6 feet. That way they're not right in your ear.

 

[majorloser]

Oh, I forget to mention, make sure that you use a film that has the rear channel (ES) encoded...like “Pirates of the Caribbean”…

Dapper Dan…

Also, try LOTR extended edition for DTS-ES discreet or try "Terminator 2 Extreme DVD" for Dolby Digital EX (I like the DTS version better)

For Pirates, make sure it's the 2-disc collector's edition. The other is just 5.1 not EX.

 

[brian32672]

Also, try LOTR extended edition for DTS-ES discreet or try "Terminator 2 Extreme DVD" for Dolby Digital EX (I like the DTS version better)

For Pirates, make sure it's the 2-disc collector's edition. The other is just 5.1 not EX.

Thats why I had put in, I'll throw in a bonus

 

[QED]

Actually, I neglected to mention that I will be using in-walls at all speaker locations.

After reading all of your replies, I'm thinking of buying some cheap little speakers just to experiment with placement before installing my real speakers, since it won't be easy to move them once they're in.

 

[Buckle-meister]

I truly feel if the receiver has the capability for 6.1 processing, then that would be the minimal I could ever recommend for anyone.

Hmm. What about 9.2?!

Seriously, if I was getting surround back capability;

1. I wouldn't get 6.1 as I've read that a single surround back speaker can sometimes make folk think the sound actually came from in front of them.

2. I would go for direct as opposed to bi-pole speakers, though this is only because I'd match the range of speakers with those I currently own.

3. It would be fairly difficult for me to 'try before you buy' for the speakers I'd be getting.

For these reasons, I'll probably leave it for a while, though I fully intend on eventually obtaining 7.2 with the smaller possibility of going the whole-hog and maxing-out with 9.2!!!!

Regards

 

[Buckle-meister]

Also, try LOTR extended edition for DTS-ES discreet...

I've seen this recommended a few times.

Doesn't it bother anyone that you have to get up half way through the film and change discs? It would drive me wild , which is why I settled for the regular discs.

Regards

 

[supervij]

I don't think I'd be able to sit through a four hour movie without wanting to take a break and stretch my legs, so no, personally, I don't mind having to change the discs.

cheers,
supervij