Quick and dirty test of sub localization - food for discussion.

[KEW]

I've never had any problems with sub localization, but I decided to do a test.
My subs (Dual Rythmik E15HP's) are located along the front wall adjacent to the mains.
Room is 16' wide by 20' deep.
I disconnected my mains and plugged my Mirage OMD-5 surrounds (which are inappropriately located on the rear wall) into the main speaker terminals and balanced the subs with the new "mains" in stereo mode.
I then stood in the middle of the room with my back to the TV so the subs were behind me.
The illusion that all sound (including bass) came from the OMD-5's was solid.
If I turned and faced the subs, I felt like I might be hearing bass localized to the subs, but I honestly don't know if that was because I knew or if I could hear something that localized them.
Turning back to the OMD-5's, I backed away from them and about 14' back (6' in front of the TV wall), I started to sense that the subs were behind and to the sides of me. This sense came from the kick drum's pressurization effect. I could not pin-point any actual sounds coming from the sub, but the perception was stronger as I backed up a little more, so I am not too quick to dismiss it as a false perception.

My conclusion is that I can put a sub anywhere I want as long as it is not too close. I'm not sure how it would work if I used a sub as an end table next to my seat. I might not notice if I was not listening critically, or maybe if I let the setup program set time delays, it would make a difference. Even if I could hear it, it would probably make for a fun ride with HT! Of course, for that type of setup, the sub volume is controlled to balance, but I would suspect proximity would still get some of energy peaks which would be lessened from a distance...I'm not certain about this and would appreciate discussion*.

No Audyssey or time phase alignment (I did factory reset and manually set up crossover at 80Hz)

* like any form of energy/radiation, sound waves lose intensity at an inverse square rate so changing the distance from 2 feet to 4 feet drops the energy level to 1/4, and going from 2 to 8 drops the energy level to 1/16!

Also wanted to encourage others to try something like this just to see. Our ears are all somewhat different, and I believe not everything "audio" is perceived through ears.

 

[j_garcia]

I found that angling the sub in the corner that it is in so one of the drivers bounces slightly differently off the adjacent side wall made a big difference in sound from the listening position and the calibration also picked it up.

 

[PENG]

For those who crossover at 60 Hz localization will be even less of an issue. Room acoustic condition and placement really matters a lot, so much so that people should not over think too much about their electronics and just focus on getting the best speakers, best placement and enjoy the music.

 

[afterlife2]

I just put mine where it was convenient cause space is limited. I just used Audyssey and then fine tuned it with some bass CD's to my liking.

 

[Steve81]

Even with a single sub crossed at 120Hz, I can't claim to have any issues with localization in normal use. The only time I've ever noticed an issue was running the sub on the order of 10dB hot for giggles.

 

[agarwalro]

ACHTUNG!

That Klipsch is an "oops" away from damaging the sub.

 

[afterlife2]

That's an old pic from 2 1/2 yrs ago when I got the PB1000. Later on I got stands for them. The Klipsch since last week has been moved to a 3.1 setup.

 

[agarwalro]

That's an old pic from 2 1/2 yrs ago when I got the PB1000. Later on I got stands for them. The Klipsch since last week has been moved to a 3.1 setup.

Haha! Cool.

 

[TheWarrior]

Much of Toole's writing mentions the importance of the Schroeder Frequency at appx 250 hz (the specific frequency is room dependent) but it is at that frequency where the transition from bass resonances (based on room dimension; wavelengths equal to room dimension will be amplified) to the mids and highs that are far more diffuse.

This gives further support to articles like AH's Crawling For Bass. You literally have to do that to obtain optimal performance. Your perceived bass is completely room dependent. Mids/highs rely on reflections of the room to create the perception of ASW (apparent source width) and LEV (listener envelopment). And what the room lacks, absorption or diffusion is there to help!

 

[mariettacaldwell]

I've never had any problems with sub localization, but I decided to do a test.
My subs (Dual Rythmik E15HP's) are located along the front wall adjacent to the mains.
Room is 16' wide by 20' deep.
I disconnected my mains and plugged my Mirage OMD-5 surrounds (which are inappropriately located on the rear wall) into the main speaker terminals and balanced the subs with the new "mains" in stereo mode.
I then stood in the middle of the room with my back to the TV so the subs were behind me.
The illusion that all sound (including bass) came from the OMD-5's was solid.
If I turned and faced the subs, I felt like I might be hearing bass localized to the subs, but I honestly don't know if that was because I knew or if I could hear something that localized them.
Turning back to the OMD-5's, I backed away from them and about 14' back (6' in front of the TV wall), I started to sense that the subs were behind and to the sides of me. This sense came from the kick drum's pressurization effect. I could not pin-point any actual sounds coming from the sub, but the perception was stronger as I backed up a little more, so I am not too quick to dismiss it as a false perception.

My conclusion is that I can put a sub anywhere I want as long as it is not too close. I'm not sure how it would work if I used a sub as an end table next to my seat. I might not notice if I was not listening critically, or maybe if I let the setup program set time delays, it would make a difference. Even if I could hear it, it would probably make for a fun ride with HT! Of course, for that type of setup, the sub volume is controlled to balance, but I would suspect proximity would still get some of energy peaks which would be lessened from a distance...I'm not certain about this and would appreciate discussion*.

No Audyssey or time phase alignment (dairy queen coupon)

* like any form of energy/radiation, sound waves lose intensity at an inverse square rate so changing the distance from 2 feet to 4 feet drops the energy level to 1/4, and going from 2 to 8 drops the energy level to 1/16!

Also wanted to encourage others to try something like this just to see. Our ears are all somewhat different, and I believe not everything "audio" is perceived through ears.

Your test is an interesting exploration of subwoofer localization! It’s impressive that you created such a solid illusion of bass originating from the Mirage OMD-5 surrounds, especially given their rear-wall placement. The fact that the effect began to shift as you moved back is noteworthy and aligns with some known principles of psychoacoustics.