questions on line conditioners

[Whitey80]

Looking at buying one, my new home is older and has horrid power. When a/c or dryer is running, all lights in the house dim considerably.
Looking to protect from potential surges and to fix some noise in cable signal.

Looking at a monster HTS 3600 and a Belkin pf60, both are about $220 used. My price range can run up to $300, but prefer to keep it low.

Hooking up to Hitachi PH42 plasma, Pioneer VSX59txi w/Mirage Uni and microsats, Infinity PS12 and Xbox360.

Suggestions? or is this just a frivilous waste of money beyond standard surge protectors

 

[Rickster71]

I'd have an electrician look at things first.
Sounds like a loose neutral...in the panel, the meter pan, weatherhead or on the power co. side.

 

[fmw]

I would say it is a frivolous waste of money, just like surge protectors are. I agree with Rickster. Call an electrician.

 

[TLS Guy]

Agreed, you must fix the house wiring first, and then look at products from APC. There is no unit that will give you absolution from bad wiring. Apart from that you might end up having a half day out with the undertaker, and you won't have to pay the crematorium.

 

[JerryLove]

For the money being spent, you might as well buy a UPS from one of the computer manufacturers (APC, Belkin, etc). You'll get surge surpression, line conditioning, brown-out supression, and survive shot blackouts (we get many here where the power goes out for about 2 seconds).

I find the A/V electric gear is simply overpriced, and often gimmick-prone. Acutally, I suppose there's some pretty gimmicky stuff on the computer side sometimes too.

 

[m_vanmeter]

If you carefully read the spec's for a/v "line conditioners" - all they do is filter EMI/RFI and control power surges. As you noted, you have a condition (however caused) that creates "power sags" or low voltage conditions.

I live in what once was a rural area...now it's cluster subdivisions and the power infrastructure is the same. During the summer, when A/C use is high, our power can run at around 105 or 106 volts.

I purchased a refurbished APC SmartUPS 1400 (current model is 1500 volt-amps) precisely because it had boost circuitry to handle power sags and enough battery backup to allow me to turn off my equipment in an orderly manner when power failed (about once a month ! ). I also specifically choose the APC SmartUPS line because when the unit goes on battery, it still produces a pure sine wave 120v output. Most inexpensive back-up style UPS units produce a "modified square wave" AC output - fine for computer switching power supplies, but can cause overheating in transformer based a/v equipment power supplies.

http://www.refurbups.com/Catalog/APC-Smart-UPS-Tower-Specials;jsessionid=0a0101421f43585ed47df7f846cbb4b8a787e91d64ac.e3eSc3iSaN0Le34Pa38Ta38Nax90

Plan to change out the batteries every 3 to 4 years - the internal lead-acid batteries just don't last longer than that.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

There's a big different to mainstream products that 'condition' with nothing more than a cap for filtering ... and something like the BPT or Equi=Tech conditioners that have a massive Plitron balanced transformer. I work with Chris at BPT, but don't have much knowledge or experience with his products. I'm the speaker guy But something with a balanced transformer can make a massive difference in some systems, almost certainly in older houses.

 

[GlocksRock]

Definitely give the APC H15 a look, it was even reviewed here recently and got a great review. APC was clearing out the silver ones a short while back for really cheap, and I'm sure you can still find some on ebay for a great price. Definitely check it out, I think it's the best power conditioner out there for the money.

 

[TLS Guy]

If you carefully read the spec's for a/v "line conditioners" - all they do is filter EMI/RFI and control power surges. As you noted, you have a condition (however caused) that creates "power sags" or low voltage conditions.

I live in what once was a rural area...now it's cluster subdivisions and the power infrastructure is the same. During the summer, when A/C use is high, our power can run at around 105 or 106 volts.

I purchased a refurbished APC SmartUPS 1400 (current model is 1500 volt-amps) precisely because it had boost circuitry to handle power sags and enough battery backup to allow me to turn off my equipment in an orderly manner when power failed (about once a month ! ). I also specifically choose the APC SmartUPS line because when the unit goes on battery, it still produces a pure sine wave 120v output. Most inexpensive back-up style UPS units produce a "modified square wave" AC output - fine for computer switching power supplies, but can cause overheating in transformer based a/v equipment power supplies.

http://www.refurbups.com/Catalog/APC-Smart-UPS-Tower-Specials;jsessionid=0a0101421f43585ed47df7f846cbb4b8a787e91d64ac.e3eSc3iSaN0Le34Pa38Ta38Nax90

Plan to change out the batteries every 3 to 4 years - the internal lead-acid batteries just don't last longer than that.

I agree completely. A surge protector is almost a complete waste of time. A smart UPS is the way to go. I have everything protected with those. Our peek loads are in the winter, and the UPS devices frequently cut in to boost power. I have noticed that now it is summer, and electricity demand is low, they are often shaving the voltage.

However the OP needs to get his house wiring looked at. He has a high probability of a dangerous condition existing. I agree that he may have a neutral problem. Those problems do not trip breakers, just burn your house down.

It's time to stop talking to the OP about power conditioning until he has his wiring inspected by an experienced electrician.

 

[JerryLove]

For anyone curious: the "smart" in a "smart UPS" generally refers to the ability to communicate (typically via serial or USB connection) with a computer. In the IT world, this is used to automate an orderly shut-down, trigger warning text messages/emails, or both.

This feature is more prevelent in more expensive units. Youll find them from 300VA to tens-of-thousands of volt-amps. Some allow the attachment of a signifigant number of external batteries as well (in case you feel you should watch the rest of the movie). There's even a handy tool on the site where you put in your load and the up-time you want without power and it tells you what you need (this can, of course, be calculated manually).

The added heat-load is minor, and they trickle-charge when there is power (so don't tend to cause signifigant extra power-loads). Good stuff.

 

[Whitey80]

Had an inspection done. The wiring is in good shape, and box was updated by previous owner. He recommended a few things to add, but the problems I am experiencing come from the grid. It appears that in 1938, when my house was built, The area only had about a dozen homes. It has since been developed to a much larger extent, and it seems that the power company/city has yet to bother to build the proper infrastructure to properly support the consumption.

 

[bandphan]

another option

That seems a little absurd that your having daily issues that could cause long term damage to your electronics, i would contact the power company and voice your concern. In south florida brown outs were causing issues back in the late 90s and FPL made attempts to address them, including installing suppressors without expense to the homeowner.

 

[TLS Guy]

Had an inspection done. The wiring is in good shape, and box was updated by previous owner. He recommended a few things to add, but the problems I am experiencing come from the grid. It appears that in 1938, when my house was built, The area only had about a dozen homes. It has since been developed to a much larger extent, and it seems that the power company/city has yet to bother to build the proper infrastructure to properly support the consumption.

That is very bad news. I had an issue last winter and the power company put in a new transformer that supplies me and a neighbor. This has helped but it is not perfect. I strongly recommend powering everything that contains chips, from a UPS that will shave and support voltage within 108 to 130 volts, with a response time no greater than 1.5 msec and preferably 1 msec. If you don't do this expect high repair bills. With your problem you can forget surge protectors.

Unfortunately no one wants to pay fro infra structure, and these issues are far too common and getting worse by the year.

 

[ChunkyDark]

For a good price on the apc h series:
http://www.buyuptime.com

Here is what I'm probably going to get for my setup.
http://www.amazon.com/1300VA-Battery-Backup-with-LCD/dp/B000XFXEDW/ref=pd_bbs_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1217557134&sr=8-5
I'm going to have a htpc so having the battery is nice.

If your power is really bad you can actually buy whole house