Questions about Power, UPS, and HT

[Briant73]

Since joining the Digital Video Recorder world an issue has arisen that is bothering me, my DVR records just fine except when experiencing a brownout/blackout, and I’d like to solve this with a good battery backup solution. I figure I only need to power the DVR while it’s recording, but I’d also like something that would enable me to watch TV uninterrupted during those power losses of a few minutes or less.

So I started doing research and have answered many questions but still have a few unanswered. Thanks to Audioholics I have decided to shy away from any product that doesn’t have posted specifications. I mean why hide the specifications if the unit is so great? I don’t mind marketing but back it up with listed specifications. I checked both Monster.com and Belkin.com and if the specs are there, they are hard to find. So far this requirement has left me with APC and Tripp-lite to choose from. The questions I am left with are:

Does having a true sine-wave output from battery power really matter or are most reputable companies’ approximations of sinewave good enough?? The reason I ask, there is another thread in this forum where someone claims his company’s products output true sinewave and nothing less should be used. Since then the same company has come out with two home theater backups with stepped approximation to sinewave (apc j10/15).

Most of the ups systems have low ratings for surge suppression (400-500 joules) while a good surge protector is in the thousands range. Does this matter and if so is there a solution of adding a surge suppressor?

Does buying a standby unit instead of ONLINE cause any problems when switching over to battery power?

My power at the house is pretty decent to begin with but would like the unit to have AVR and maybe even condtion the power, but is this a requirement for someone who already has decent power?

So far I have a few different units in mind depending on what I learn from the answers to this message. The units are:
Tripp-lite (the first two units are pratically the same except one adds more coax suppression the third is a true sinewave ups)
http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=3151
http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=3265
http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=2800

APC (sorry the s line is out of my price range)
http://www.apcc.com/products/apcav/products/index.cfm?action=detail&base_sku=J15BLK&tab=features
http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA1500&total_watts=50

My equipment - Denon AVR-3803, Sharp 32" standard tube tv, Panasonic 5 disc dvd, dish dvr-625, pioneer cd player.
Thanks for reading and appreciate any input.

 

[MDS]

A true sine wave output is better but is not an absolute requirement. The vast majority of UPS for computers are stepped approximation of sine-wave but the computer power supply doesn't care.

The argument is that a true sine wave UPS will be better for preserving the video and audio quality. If you want to continue recording during a power outage, it might be worth it to get a true 'online' UPS (pure sine wave) but you will pay for it (increased cost over stepped approximation UPS).

Anything over 400 Joules for surge suppresion is sufficient. What matters more is the 'clamping time'; ie how fast it responds to surges and even a cheap UPS will likely have a clamping time of 1 nanosecond or less. Most specify 'instantaneous' which is a nice way of saying 'so fast that it can't be accurately measured'.

 

[Briant73]

I have some things to add to my earlier message, thanks for the response so far. My system is with everything on is using (according to specs) 1133watts. The receiver lists itself as a 7.0a draw which I believe converts to 840watts, is this correct?

Also would getting a device such as a brickwall http://brickwall.com/index.htm
before the ups give me superior power protection with battery backup?

 

[MDS]

First, the rating of a UPS is for 'half-load' (they don't make that clear in the advertisements but do in the manual that comes with the UPS). For example if it says 1000 watts and the runtime is say 20 minutes, you will only get 20 minutes of battery power if the load connected to the UPS is 500 watts or less.

Second, the rating for the receiver will be either maximum power consumption or average power consumption and of course they don't really clarify which it is.

The best approach is to add up the average power consumption of everything that will be connected and buy a UPS with a capacity of twice that amount. If the capacity of the UPS is less than twice but still more than the total power consumption, it will be fine but you won't get the stated run time on battery power.

No you do not want to connect the UPS to a surge suppressor. A surge suppressor connected to the UPS is ok, but the UPS should be connected to the wall. Go to the apc (american power conversion) website for a more detailed explanation as to why.

 

[Briant73]

Thanks again for the prompt response, on another forum I saw users stating that a brickwall and zerosurge products can be used before the UPS because they are not MOV based units. Here is a link to show what I am reading - http://www.spikeandsurge.com/site/574069/product/8R15W or is this a company saying "yeah it works, trust us"

Here is the apc link about ups and surge, seems to say they don't trust a surge protector to send full power to the ups - http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1372&p_created=1010390400&p_sid=5xBEw-li&p_accessibility=0&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NjY1JnBfcHJvZHM9MCZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1zdXJnZSBwcm90ZWN0b3Igd2l0aCB1cHM*&p_li=&p_topview=1


Brian

 

[Briant73]

Another question I measured the power voltage at the outlet level of my house, it seems to be in the 115-116 range according to my radio shack meter, is this ok or does it need to be close to 120?

Thanks

 

[MDS]

If your house voltage is consistently near 120v then you have very good electrical service. Most of the time it varies widely due to demand and the capacity of the electrical grid in your area.

Voltage regulators are sold on the premise that they will maintain a constant level of 120v, but a UPS will only boost the voltage if it falls lower than whatever threshold you set. As long as the voltage is between the low threshold and the high threshold, it won't touch it at all. Does it matter? I'm not so sure.

 

[Briant73]

MDS thanks for all the responses, would be a quiet thread so far without you. I did e-mail the companies who make the series (non mov) mode surge suppressors and one of them wrote back saying they work fine in front of an ups. I have no idea if it's true and the ups manufacturer might beg to differ. I know if i e-mailed them either it would be bad or they would say it's ok but only with their products.

I am glad for forums like this one, too many places either recommend a certain brand because the kid at best buy showed the a dirty power demo or you got the people who equate more expensive with better.

I am just trying to put together a nice system that protects, regulates (if needed) and has battery backup without breaking the bank (my receiver, tv, dvr are less than the apc s15 current prices).

 

[Nick250]

Don't get too hung up on this stuff. Among all your friends, colleagues and relatives, how many have audio equipment that failed do to unstable current? I can think of none. I suggest a quality surge protector and leave it at that.

Nick

 

[MDS]

Just for fun I looked at what my current APC UPS thinks about the voltage. This is connected to the computer. I don't have any UPS or power conditioner/regulator on my HT equipment.

The low threshold is 88 volts and the high threshold is 138 volts (those are the default settings). The current voltage is 124 volts. The UPS will not modify the voltage unless it drops to 88 or rises above 138. I guess tonight my line voltage is higher than the nominal 120v. Haven't noticed any difference and I'm sure if I look at it again later it will have changed from 124v to some other number.

Regarding the series mode surge suppressors, I am no expert but have read a bit about them. If you believe all the hype, they are the greatest thing since sliced bread and make mov based surge suppressors look like toys. Problem is for every accolade for series mode suppressors you read you can find an equal number of articles (mostly by electrical engineers - not layman) that refute it. All I know is that if a surge suppressor of any kind cannot clamp the surge fast enough, the UPS may miss it and not be able to switch to battery backup before damage is done.

 

[Briant73]

After a few days of asking questions and doing research I'm leaning toward the apc j15 unit, it seems to have it all though it doesn't do pure sinewave.

I have thought about the tripplite ups solutions but the apc seems to be more robust in surge and power filtering, the j15 is about the limit of my budget.

My other thought is an APC smart-ups 1500.

What are your thoughts?

 

[JIMENG]

After a few days of asking questions and doing research I'm leaning toward the apc j15 unit, it seems to have it all though it doesn't do pure sinewave.

I have thought about the tripplite ups solutions but the apc seems to be more robust in surge and power filtering, the j15 is about the limit of my budget.

My other thought is an APC smart-ups 1500.

What are your thoughts?

I would really look at the brickwall units www.pricewheeler.com/index.htm

I believe they offer better surge supression. I also purchased a APC surge suppressor. In addition I purchased a Running Springs Haley for power filtering and condtioning. A bit of overkill but $5000.00 worth of audio/video gear should have some coverage right

 

[Briant73]

I actually decided to go with an APC smart-ups 750. Found one at a very good price on ebay. I thought the 750 might of been too small but with the tv, dvr, and receiver on it's only showing load at 2 lights out of 5. I expect with just the dvr on and recording I should get 2 hours of battery life.

I may still get a series mode surge protector but have some questions about them that I haven't finished researching.

 

[jcrobso]

I have some things to add to my earlier message, thanks for the response so far. My system is with everything on is using (according to specs) 1133watts. The receiver lists itself as a 7.0a draw which I believe converts to 840watts, is this correct?
Also would getting a device such as a brickwall http://brickwall.com/index.htm
before the ups give me superior power protection with battery backup?

The is full power usage figure, I doubt that you run at full power. The advantage of the UPS tis the you have time to turn everything off in a normal manner. If you HDTV has a lamp and you loose all power the cool fan will stop and the residual heat in the lamp can melt it . John

 

[Briant73]

The is full power usage figure, I doubt that you run at full power. The advantage of the UPS tis the you have time to turn everything off in a normal manner. If you HDTV has a lamp and you loose all power the cool fan will stop and the residual heat in the lamp can melt it . John

Yes the Apc sua750 smart ups tells me that with the tv, receiver, and dvr on I am under 50% load (2 out of 5 lights).

Brian