QUESTION: Equipment For PSB Image Speakers

[Simon Says]

I want to purchase a speaker system from PSB:
-Towers- Image T6
-Center - Image C4
-Rears - Image S5
-Sub - Subseries 5i (I might go for the "Outlaw LFM-1 EX Sub" instead)
A 5.1 setup. Problem is I don't know which equipment to run them. 1 place told me to run this: Receiver=Pioneer Elite VSX 32 with this Amp=Rotel RMB 1565. Another place told me that this new receiver that will be out early September:Yamaha RX-A 2000, will run my speakers fine without an amp. He said I would not really notice a difference in sound or performance with either setup. My inexperience is driving my a little nuts with this. I plan to watch movies off the big screen and listen to music...Music would be like heavy metal, r&b, hip hop, some country and oldies...a little of everything. I do want to be able to play these speakers in every way and enjoy watching movies and pumping music thru them. Your expert help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[XEagleDriver]

I think you are being mislead

I want to purchase a speaker system from PSB:
-Towers- Image T6
-Center - Image C4
-Rears - Image S5
-Sub - Subseries 5i (I might go for the "Outlaw LFM-1 EX Sub" instead)
A 5.1 setup. Problem is I don't know which equipment to run them. 1 place told me to run this: Receiver=Pioneer Elite VSX 32 with this Amp=Rotel RMB 1565. Another place told me that this new receiver that will be out early September:Yamaha RX-A 2000, will run my speakers fine without an amp. He said I would not really notice a difference in sound or performance with either setup. My inexperience is driving my a little nuts with this. I plan to watch movies off the big screen and listen to music...Music would be like heavy metal, r&b, hip hop, some country and oldies...a little of everything. I do want to be able to play these speakers in every way and enjoy watching movies and pumping music thru them. Your expert help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Simon,

First off, congratulations, as an owner of the previous generation of PSB Image speakers I think you will greatly enjoy the speakers--I sure have!

Secondly, the Pioneer/Rotel advice you received doesn't make much sense. The Pioneer VSX-32 puts out 110W/ch, thus the recomendation to buy a relatively expensive separate 5-channel 100W/ch Rotel (MSRP $2500) doesn't pass the smell test IMHO.

I am not saying external amplification is a bad idea, its not, but just being an external amp is not the end of the story. Replacing the VSX-32 receiver's ~100W internal amps, with a set of also ~100W external amps is not going to yield much (maybe even a noticable) improvement.

For the money a Rotel 5-channel sells for, you could get a much more powerful 2 or 3 channel external amp (200W or 250W/ch) that will make a noticable improvement to your front sound stage (the most important part!). The Pio would continue to drive the 3 or 2 remaining channels with no problem.

I suggest selecting the receiver of your choice with the audio and video features you want (Dolby-TrueHD & DTS-HD, Audessy or MCACC, several HDMI inputs, etc.) and one that has about 100-140W/channel. Many are available at reasonable cost from Pioneer, Denon/Marantz, Yamaha, or Onkyo.

Listen to this AVR/speaker combo and THEN if you need more power research and buy a much more powerful (like at least twice the AVR's power) external amplifier.


Cheers,
XEagleDriver

EDIT: I forgot to mention, the receiver MUST have a full-set of pre-amp outs or the external amp option is toast!

 

[Seth=L]

If we're going to spend that kind of money why not get a Pioneer Elite SC series receiver?

Both the Pioneer SC-35 and Rotel RMB-1565 use the same ICEpower Class D technology. The power cabibilities are going to be neck and neck between that receiver and the Rotel amplifier.

The cost of getting both the amplifier and the Pioneer Elite VSX-32 exceeds $3000, and the SC-35 is going to cost half of that, have more features, and take up less space, all while having combarable amplifier performance.

I'd wager the SC-35 would outperform the soon to come Yamaha RX-A2000. The RX-A2000 seems to be built on a platform that's used for the RX-A1000, RX-A2000, and RX-A3000 receivers, and are very similar aside from small increases in weight indicating a larger power supply. Because the Yamaha receivers are a Class A/B design and the Pioneer Elite SC-35 is Class D it is difficult to determine how they would compare without testing each one, but the Pioneer is around 40 pounds vs. the Yamaha's 35. Class D designs are typically lighter for the same output power leading me to believe it's likely the Pioneer will edge out the Yamaha in overall output. This is not concrete, but it's a good indication.

Did I mention the SC-35 is one sexy looking receiver?

 

[Simon Says]

Seth and Eagledriver, i can get the pioneer vsx 32 for 800$ and the rotel amp 1565 for 1200$. yea...i am aware of the elite sc-35...and i was once looking at it as a possiblity...it does seem like i have been getting more people saying just to go with a decent receiver and i will be very happy. the pioneer elite is like 1600$..but i might be able to get it for cheaper from the same dealer who has the speakers for me. hes the one who told me about the yamaha rx-a2000. i might even save on the electric bill running one decent receiver instead of a receive+amp at the same time...thanks so far for the comments...keep them comin...im getting real close to pulling the trigger on this setup...im getting a little excited! Thanks !!!!!

 

[Ares]

I'll throw this out there I'm also an owner of the last gen Images and currently running them with a Denon 1910 (2nd one first one was faulty) it has a enough juice to power my set-up so you can use the Elite 32 minus the external amp. But if you are worried about having enough headroom and saving some coin I would take Seth's suggestion or as XED pointed out you could add a 2-3 ch amp later down the road since the front three need the most power and let receiver handle the rest JMO.

 

[3db]

I'm also an onwer of PSB's previous generation Image speakers, having the T45s as mains, 8C centre, and 1Bs as my surrounds. I used to drive them with a Technics SA940DX receiver which was class H in a room that was 12'x20' with 7' ceilings and even that lowly receiver pushed them into the low 90s at the listening position that was 6' feet away. Now I have a Yamaha RX-V1800 which easily drives them into the 90s without a hint of compression that I was getting with the Technics.

As you may notice, I did mention room size and distance from the main speakers to the listening position. That would help us if you could share that info with us.

What I would do is what Xeagle suggested and wait to see how the setup sounds before spending on equipment you may not need. If that Pioneer has all the bells & whisteles liek HDMI1.3 (never mind the 1.4 3D crap) and all the lossless codecs, and if you feel you still need power, then get a 2 or 3 channel amp from Emotiva.

But first listen to what you have first. You may very well reach the conclusion that you won't need the extra power.

I would choose the Oulaw over the PSB sub.

 

[Simon Says]

My family room is 21'x14' with 8' ceilings and after the 14' width is an open kitchen and dining room area..nice & spacious. If your Yamaha RX-V1800 ran the speakers, then I'm sure the Pioneer Elite SC-35 running them will be like a walk in the park just like your Yamaha. Thanks for the info!

 

[3db]

My family room is 21'x14' with 8' ceilings and after the 14' width is an open kitchen and dining room area..nice & spacious. If your Yamaha RX-V1800 ran the speakers, then I'm sure the Pioneer Elite SC-35 running them will be like a walk in the park just like your Yamaha. Thanks for the info!

That's a big area. My room was enclosed. You will easily get the volume in the family room while sitting in there but don't expect the same volume in the rest of the open area even with a more powerful amplifiers behind those PSB. The PSB are designed to fill the house full of sound from their location in one room.

 

[krzywica]

IMO if you can afford a 5-7 channel power amp then always go that route. It can afford more headroom than all but the most expensive receivers and allows for an easy upgrade path in the future as you never have to worry about how much power the new receiver will need when you decide to upgrade as you already have amplification covered. It might be more of an investment now but it will save you money down the road as you will most likely be able to settle for a lower end receiver that might have the same features of the high end units, just not as much power...

I would probably go with an Emo XPA-5.

 

[Simon Says]

ok then...what receiver is a good one you recommend that has all the goodies but is under 800 bucks to run behind the Emo APA-5 amp?

 

[Seth=L]

The Marantz SR6004 has one of the finest preamp sections you'll find a receiver, and it has plenty of nice features. It does lack HDMI 1.4 (needed to support 3DTV) if you care about such things. Note: you need a HDMI 1.4 capable source and display, so unless you went out of your way to buy a 3D ready blu-ray player, cable box, or television, then you don't need HDMI 1.4.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR6004/Marantz/SR6004-Dolby-TrueHD-PLIIz/dts-HD-MA-AV-Receiver/1.html

 

[Simon Says]

being that im new to this im a little intimidated by all the equipment(receiver&amp) hooking everthing up and configuring. But if I went with the pioneer elite sc-35 receiver, being that i'm new to the home entertainment thing, i would probably be happy as well.(which was kinda your advice b4) I dont have to worry about hooking all these things up and trying to configure everything. im not even sure if i can configure everything. ive never done it b4. i can get the pioneer elite sc-35 for $1145+free shipping. anybody think anything better? im not really a marantz fan. and if u think its cool with the elite receiver is there a cheaper deal out there for the same elite?

 

[jinjuku]

The Marantz SR6004 has one of the finest preamp sections you'll find a receiver, and it has plenty of nice features. It does lack HDMI 1.4 (needed to support 3DTV) if you care about such things. Note: you need a HDMI 1.4 capable source and display, so unless you went out of your way to buy a 3D ready blu-ray player, cable box, or television, then you don't need HDMI 1.4.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR6004/Marantz/SR6004-Dolby-TrueHD-PLIIz/dts-HD-MA-AV-Receiver/1.html

++ That.

You could also check out the Marantz SR7002. Has a great amp section if plus affords you the ability to add external amplification.

The recommendation for a Pioneer plus the Rotel is a chumps game.

I would say to look used on the Amplification side, also look at Emotiva and Outlaw audio. I picked up a killer Adcom GFA5503 for $350 local. Thing was almost brand new. Craigslist is your friend.

What area do you live?

 

[jinjuku]

being that im new to this im a little intimidated by all the equipment(receiver&amp) hooking everthing up and configuring. But if I went with the pioneer elite sc-35 receiver, being that i'm new to the home entertainment thing, i would probably be happy as well.(which was kinda your advice b4) I dont have to worry about hooking all these things up and trying to configure everything. im not even sure if i can configure everything. ive never done it b4. i can get the pioneer elite sc-35 for $1145+free shipping. anybody think anything better? im not really a marantz fan. and if u think its cool with the elite receiver is there a cheaper deal out there for the same elite?

Why don't you like Marantz? They have been hammering out some really nice receivers under that badge.

Hell you could get the SR7002 + something like the Emotive XPA-5 for $1400. Just a few bucks more than the SC-35. Look used for the amp and and you could score a Rotel/Adcom/Parasound for ~$500 and be at price parity with the Pioneer.

 

[3db]

ok then...what receiver is a good one you recommend that has all the goodies but is under 800 bucks to run behind the Emo APA-5 amp?

Its not about the amp/receiver but the speakers. You cannot expect to fill a house full of sound from one pair of speakers in a room. That is what I'm driving at. You'll achieve 90+ db SPLthat from the listening postion with the Pioneer in the family room but not in the kitchen. It will be loud in teh kitchen but not near as loud as in teh family room. Those speakers are not meant for that kind of use as most speakers being mentioned. What you have will work in the family room but don't expect to crank them with even a more powerful amp to get the same loudness levels in the adjoining rooms. You WILL blow your speakers.

 

[krzywica]

Why don't you like Marantz? They have been hammering out some really nice receivers under that badge.

Hell you could get the SR7002 + something like the Emotive XPA-5 for $1400. Just a few bucks more than the SC-35. Look used for the amp and and you could score a Rotel/Adcom/Parasound for ~$500 and be at price parity with the Pioneer.

Yeah I would seconds this option. Adding an external power amp is really easy and we can walk you step by step how to set everything up should you chose to go that route.

 

[Seth=L]

++ That.

You could also check out the Marantz SR7002. Has a great amp section if plus affords you the ability to add external amplification.

The recommendation for a Pioneer plus the Rotel is a chumps game.

I would say to look used on the Amplification side, also look at Emotiva and Outlaw audio. I picked up a killer Adcom GFA5503 for $350 local. Thing was almost brand new. Craigslist is your friend.

What area do you live?

The SR6004 has more features than the SR7002 (the SR7002 is only HDMI 1.2 with 2 inputs, one output vs. 4 in 2 out on the SR6004). They both have 7.1 preouts, and if adding an amplifier is part of the game, I don't see the reason behind getting the SR7002 at a mere $50 difference. The SR6004 is also sexier.

 

[krzywica]

The SR6004 has more features than the SR7002 (the SR7002 is only HDMI 1.2 with 2 inputs, one output vs. 4 in 2 out on the SR6004). They both have 7.1 preouts, and if adding an amplifier is part of the game, I don't see the reason behind getting the SR7002 at a mere $50 difference. The SR6004 is also sexier.

That is quite sexy indeed!

 

[Seth=L]

This is my thought process

Pros for SR7002:

- more internal power (however this may be neglegible and eventually rendered irrelevant with the addition of a power amplifier)

- cost is $50 less than the SR6004 for a refurbished model from Accessories4less

- the drop down faceplace is sexy

Pros for the SR6004

- HDMI 1.3 and proper facilities for decoding DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD for Blu-ray audio formats

- measured output voltage of 7 volts for 7.1 preamp outputs while having a low SNR and linear output, all excellent characteristics of a solid preamplifier

- 4 HDMI inputs and 2 outputs (that's got to be convenient sometimes)

- sexier and still has drop down face plate (could be a matter of preference which looks better at this point), and a little shorter than the SR7002 so it will take up less space on the audio rack

 

[Ares]

Seth you need to stop with all the Receiver Porn, last thing we need is AHer's foaming at mouth when looking at the sweet and sexy Marantz 6004 Hmmmmmmmmmm.....Damn, I forgot what I was saying.