Question about Sony cassette decks

P

pezboy

Enthusiast
I'm looking into getting a Sony cassette deck and am wondering what different options I have.

i need a dual deck
i would like it to have a mic input and headphone out, did they ever have a model with mic input?
what is the newest model they made with these options or option?
did they make any es models with these options or option?
what is considered their better models with these options or option?
any other features I should look for that aren't standard?

Thanks for your help.
Dustin
 
OttoMatic

OttoMatic

Senior Audioholic
Hmmm, not sure I've ever seen a cassette player with a mic input, but hey, I haven't seen a cassette player for ten years! :D

Tell us, what are your goals? It seems like you might be doing something special or different. Also, what's your budget and why are you particular to Sony?
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
I did some searching. I couldn't find a Sony with a mic input, although I found a JVC dual deck with one. Like Otto, I was also wondering if you are set on buying a Sony.
 
P

pezboy

Enthusiast
Unfortunately, I am set on Sony. I have had good experience with them and bad experience with other companies, so I decided to only purchase Sony equipment. I figured there was a good chance there wasn't a model without mic input. I am wanting a machine to replace a 15 year old deck that has a broken eject button and tape counter. I was wanting something newer with digital display to be able to make quick recordings onto before I record them onto cd. My brother also has a cassette deck in his car and I figured It would be nice to make him some copies. I want a good quality deck for playback as well because I have a few albums on cassette that I don't have on vinyl or cd. My budget is probably around $200 max. Used or new is fine with me. So, with that in mind what would you suggest? Thanks.
Dustin
 
P

pezboy

Enthusiast
Yes, I have looked into that. I am just checking to see if there might be a better alternative in an older model (higher quality, lower cost).
Dustin
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Yes, I have looked into that. I am just checking to see if there might be a better alternative in an older model (higher quality, lower cost).
Dustin
I would look at other decks. Tape recorders are an item I know something about. Sony cassette decks are mediocre to poor, and that goes for the vast majority of cassette decks.

Avoid decks that play in both directions, as it cause skew and serious azimuth alignment problems with HF loss. That is why the Nakamichi Dragon turned the tape round.

Now the best fidelity ever achieved in the cassette medium came from Nakamichi. However the very high performance came with a lot of headaches and problems. I Have fixed quite a few for people over the years.

The best all round performers came at the top end of the TEAC/Tascam stable.

The Tascam machines like this one, are built like a battleship, which all good tape recorders need to be. Their fidelity is excellent.

The machine I picked out is in on eBay now. If you are wanting to continue to use the cassette medium, that is the sort of machine you need, not Sony. I would bid on it with confidence.

I have had my professional TEAC Z6000 master cassette deck since 1984. That machine is really built! The other issue is that you are far better off with two decks rather than dual decks which are all rather nasty. However if you must have a dual deck the Tascam are the best of the bunch.

If you want to use a microphone get a mixer. You will then be able to use low Z microphones and get decent results.
 
yettitheman

yettitheman

Audioholic General
^ That TASCAM is nice.
Makes me jealous :D
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Unfortunately, I am set on Sony. I have had good experience with them and bad experience with other companies, so I decided to only purchase Sony equipment. I figured there was a good chance there wasn't a model without mic input. I am wanting a machine to replace a 15 year old deck that has a broken eject button and tape counter. I was wanting something newer with digital display to be able to make quick recordings onto before I record them onto cd. My brother also has a cassette deck in his car and I figured It would be nice to make him some copies. I want a good quality deck for playback as well because I have a few albums on cassette that I don't have on vinyl or cd. My budget is probably around $200 max. Used or new is fine with me. So, with that in mind what would you suggest? Thanks.
Dustin
By excluding all other brands, you're limiting your options and it will be literally impossible to get the best for the application. Wanting a Sony when they don't make what you want, won't make it happen. Also, no manufacturer put out their best product in a dual deck. Ever.

Your tape counter probably just needs a new belt and if the eject button broke, Super Glue will fix it if it's only the plastic. If something else broke, I would have to ask why it was pressed too hard.

If you know someone who can repair this kind of thing, buy the pair of TC-K777 on fleabay and add a small mixer. They're silver but if you want great cassette sound, you'll have a hard time finding better for the price.

Sony-TC-K620-3-head-Cassette-Deck-

Or, if you absolutely need mic input, there's a TC-K15 that comes with 2 mics.

Enter 'Sony Cassette Deck' in the search bar. If you want convenience, but a double deck- if you want quality, buy two single decks and if you can find TC-K models (TC-K15, TC-K71, etc), buy them. TC-FX models were good but the TC-K models were great, especially the three head ones. If you need them to be black, look for the ES versions but if you're not that closed-minded about the cosmetics, the silver will be more available. If I wanted a great cassette deck now, I would look for a TC-K71, TC-K75 or TC-K81(metal capable version) or any of the other three head versions by that designer. I watched him tweak a $300 model (TC-K55-2 head but definitely a great model) at a tape deck clinic because it didn't meet the frequency response spec, using nothing more than a signal generator and a voltmeter. When he was done, it went beyond 20KHz at -20dB (the standard reference level). This was with a long line of people waiting and watching, including the owner of that piece. Everyone got a printout of the performance of their deck and other than that one, all of the Sony equipment surpassed the ratings and even that did after a little tweaking. The guy with the Nakamichi was NOT happy when the belt came off after Play, FF, Stop, Rewind were pressed. The Sony designer put the belt on and it didn't come close to spec. All heads were cleaned and demagnetized before testing.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I would look at other decks. Tape recorders are an item I know something about. Sony cassette decks are mediocre to poor, and that goes for the vast majority of cassette decks.

Avoid decks that play in both directions, as it cause skew and serious azimuth alignment problems with HF loss. That is why the Nakamichi Dragon turned the tape round.

Now the best fidelity ever achieved in the cassette medium came from Nakamichi. However the very high performance came with a lot of headaches and problems. I Have fixed quite a few for people over the years.

The best all round performers came at the top end of the TEAC/Tascam stable.

The Tascam machines like this one, are built like a battleship, which all good tape recorders need to be. Their fidelity is excellent.

The machine I picked out is in on eBay now. If you are wanting to continue to use the cassette medium, that is the sort of machine you need, not Sony. I would bid on it with confidence.

I have had my professional TEAC Z6000 master cassette deck since 1984. That machine is really built! The other issue is that you are far better off with two decks rather than dual decks which are all rather nasty. However if you must have a dual deck the Tascam are the best of the bunch.

If you want to use a microphone get a mixer. You will then be able to use low Z microphones and get decent results.
You're not dealing with consumer models, and those are what most people are asking about, although the advice to go with pro/semi-pro models is good. He already said he wanted to spend about $200 and LowZ mics with a mixer will definitely fall outside of that range.

However, as I posted, the Sony TC-K models are far from mediocre when cassette recorders are considered and in the early '80s, they were well above the rest unless a lot of money was paid for a pro model. Dual decks are the equivalent of a stacking record player, IMO, but Sony had a few auto-reverse models that had a rotating head with adjustments for each direction (it was about the best without actually rotating the tape and being too expensive). I agree that auto-reverse definitely sacrifices sound quality, though. 1-7/8 ips is not the best way to record accurately but it was hard to beat for convenience and decent sound. With few exceptions, "High-end cassette" is an oxymoron.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I'm looking into getting a Sony cassette deck and am wondering what different options I have.

i need a dual deck
i would like it to have a mic input and headphone out, did they ever have a model with mic input?
what is the newest model they made with these options or option?
did they make any es models with these options or option?
what is considered their better models with these options or option?
any other features I should look for that aren't standard?

Thanks for your help.
Dustin
If you're trying to play/sing and record yourself by mixing the signals, far better methods exist. Every time you copy a cassette, you'll lost high frequency content and add a "head bump" in the low frequency range. If this is your goal, since you already have a computer, why not download Audacity or some other recording software with multi-track capability and buy an audio interface that connects through a USB port. Successive generations won't have the same audio losses and you won't be trying to operate two, or more, pieces of equipment at the same time.
 
Nomo

Nomo

Audioholic Samurai
The older Onkyo's, my mothballed TA-2048 for example, had a mic-in. The new models do not.
It appears that if you want this feature for under $200, Ebay would be a good place to start.

FWIW, the TA-2048 was a fantastic player in it's day.
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
The older Onkyo's, my mothballed TA-2048 for example, had a mic-in. The new models do not.
It appears that if you want this feature for under $200, Ebay would be a good place to start.

FWIW, the TA-2048 was a fantastic player in it's day.
Yep, my Onkyo TA-R240 has stereo mic inputs, too. Like yours, it was (probably still is) a great deck.

I was trying to find it after you mentioned yours, Nomo, and then I discovered it sitting on the floor about five feet away from my computer. :) I should box that bad boy up.
 
P

pezboy

Enthusiast
Thanks for all of your replies. I have learned a lot about these devices. The cassette deck I have is only good for playing tapes out of the left side. A family member broke the eject on the right side and I am fairly sure it can't be fixed. I am going to give this deck to a friend after I buy a new one.
I found a site called www.vintagecassette.com and I was shocked at some of the MSRPs on the high end models. What does a decent deck go for used?
I decided to go for a single deck like recommended and later get a second later. I checked out the TC-K15 and it looks like a pretty good vintage deck. Does this model come in black? It wouldn't kill me to have silver, but if I have the option I would choose black.
I haven't considered recording through my PC. I have no clue where to start, but I will research that option as well.
I do have one more question though. I have seen metal tapes. Should I look for a deck that can record onto these?
Thanks.
Dustin
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks for all of your replies. I have learned a lot about these devices. The cassette deck I have is only good for playing tapes out of the left side. A family member broke the eject on the right side and I am fairly sure it can't be fixed. I am going to give this deck to a friend after I buy a new one.
I found a site called www.vintagecassette.com and I was shocked at some of the MSRPs on the high end models. What does a decent deck go for used?
I decided to go for a single deck like recommended and later get a second later. I checked out the TC-K15 and it looks like a pretty good vintage deck. Does this model come in black? It wouldn't kill me to have silver, but if I have the option I would choose black.
I haven't considered recording through my PC. I have no clue where to start, but I will research that option as well.
I do have one more question though. I have seen metal tapes. Should I look for a deck that can record onto these?
Thanks.
Dustin
I don't know if it comes in black or not.

The problem with cassette machines is that they are really marginal as to the quality of the sound reproduction. The reason is tape saturation leading to distortion.

Now the problem is that the track width is less than 1/16", and the tape speed is only 1 7/8 ips. The slower the tape the more high frequency EQ has to be applied in recording to keep signal to noise acceptable. The bottom line is that tape cassette machines only give a flat response at -20db. As the modulation increases the tape saturates and the high frequencies roll off, as well as producing significant distortion. It takes an open reel two track machine with 1/4' tape running at 15 ips to get flat response in the audio band out to 20 kHz.

Now better tape formulations, have better signal to noise and can be modulated harder before saturating, and need less HF boost, and so have better signal to noise. Type I ferric tapes are the lowest quality, type II bias chrome tapes are much better and metal tapes are a little better yet.

Few use cassette machines for recording any longer, that are mainly used to play existing libraries and archiving.

Recording systems that use computer hard drives are much superior, and that is what I use almost exclusively now, unless a customer wants an open reel or cassette dub.

Now a tape recorder of any type that is any good, needs to be a really good piece of precision engineering among other things. Good tape recorders of any stripe have always been very high ticket items. In tape machines the difference in sound quality between the run of the mill and excellent machines is huge.

The best machines have a very high standard of construction, three motors and three heads. That means totally separate record and replay amps. The best ones also have systems to assist the owner calibrate the machines for different brands of tapes. There were some auto Eq systems, but I prefer manual with built in test tones.

That is another issue. The characteristic of tapes from different manufacturers are significantly different and you can only calibrate a machine for one brand of tape in the three categories above at a time for recording purposes.

This is obviously not cheap. I paid $2000 for my machine back in 1984.

Individuals who like tape recorders, will pay very large sums for good vintage machines, in good electrical and mechanical state of repair, that have been carefully calibrated, for Azimuth alignment, bias and equalization.

I doubt I would part with my machine for less than I paid for it, but its not for sale.
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Remember, though, Mark - your standards are quite a bit higher than the general population! I was really happy with my Onkyo tape deck that cost something like $250 back in the late 80's. It's probably in the "run of the mill" category, but I thought it was great. I used either chrome high bias or metal tapes. Combined with the other equipment that I owned, the recordings made on it were darn close to the original CDs. Were they that close in reality? I can't say, but I can say that I couldn't tell on my equipment. So, a $150 tape deck might be perfectly fine for the OP.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Remember, though, Mark - your standards are quite a bit higher than the general population! I was really happy with my Onkyo tape deck that cost something like $250 back in the late 80's. It's probably in the "run of the mill" category, but I thought it was great. I used either chrome high bias or metal tapes. Combined with the other equipment that I owned, the recordings made on it were darn close to the original CDs. Were they that close in reality? I can't say, but I can say that I couldn't tell on my equipment. So, a $150 tape deck might be perfectly fine for the OP.
When it comes to tape recorders ones standards are never high enough!
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
The Sony tcd5m if you can find one was a great pro field recorder. If not as mentioned id look to tascam.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The Sony tcd5m if you can find one was a great pro field recorder. If not as mentioned id look to tascam.
That was a really nice recorder if portability is needed but the TC-K71, 75 and 81 were three head with adjustable bias, three motors and better high frequency response. The TC-D5M did 17K at -20dB but really nothing higher. Also, as I found out by doing it, if you press the button to illuminate the VU meters when it's running on batteries, the tape speed decreases until the lights go out. MArantz had a similar model with one meter and a left/right switch.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks for all of your replies. I have learned a lot about these devices. The cassette deck I have is only good for playing tapes out of the left side. A family member broke the eject on the right side and I am fairly sure it can't be fixed. I am going to give this deck to a friend after I buy a new one.
I found a site called www.vintagecassette.com and I was shocked at some of the MSRPs on the high end models. What does a decent deck go for used?
I decided to go for a single deck like recommended and later get a second later. I checked out the TC-K15 and it looks like a pretty good vintage deck. Does this model come in black? It wouldn't kill me to have silver, but if I have the option I would choose black.
I haven't considered recording through my PC. I have no clue where to start, but I will research that option as well.
I do have one more question though. I have seen metal tapes. Should I look for a deck that can record onto these?
Thanks.
Dustin
In the '70s, there wasn't much equipment available in black. Silver was the dominant color, although in Sony's line, they had a medium gray that looks somewhat green in some light. The TA-F6B/7B were in that color and you can see it at the Vintage Knob. The TC-K15 was the bottom of their line at the time, but it was definitely better than most others in the same price range. If you want black, go for the 3 head models on ebay. If you want 3 heads, go for the silver ones. I don't know what you plan to use for tape but you'll need to try several to find the best one(s) for your applications. Metal tapes had a higher saturation point and better overall response but not all were exactly the same. Some machines did better with Sony tape, some with Maxell, TDK, Fuji or whatever. Memorex was not one of the good ones and I can't begin to tell you how many yards of their tape I had to remove from car and home players. If you try to use metal oxide tape on a non-metal capable model, it will be badly underbiased, which usually caused a lift in the high frequency response.

As far as PC recording, the Audacity software I mentioned is free, so try it out. You can save the tracks in different formats and burn CDs from the files.
 
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