Question about OHMS

P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
When the first CD players became available, one of the most commonly used discs to demo'ing amps and speakers was the 1812 Overture section that was recorded with real cannon. That registered peaks of about 30dB, according to the VU meters on the recorders we would connect and unless the deep bass is removed, most amps and speakers yak all over their shoes when this part shows up at anything above a moderate level.

Again, even with engineers and testers, complete agreement on power requirements is impossible, but the fact that nobody has given up trying to make the best, benefits all of us.
I always say more power is better, no argument from me at all. It is just too bad that most people have to make choices to fit their budget.

Regarding the 1812 CD, I had listened to a few over the years. I still have the Telarc one that has the real cannon recording. Telarc claimed it went as high as 3000 Hz during the initial crack upon ignition and all the way down to 6 Hz in the follow-up boom. My system has no problem reproducing the cannon shots nicely (except for anything below 15 Hz I guess) with or without the external amp hooked up, obviously in 2 channel stereo only. I am not aware of any 1812 recorded in SACD or DVDA using real cannons. If you know of one please let me know and I will order a copy right away.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The inverse square law works in open field but not in a room. If you have a sound meter you can find out for yourself. You are right in saying that "this will change +/- with more/less absorptive acoustics", but in terms of the in room distance effect the change is invariably on the favorable side. How much room gain you get depends on the geometry of the room. In my room I do not lose much at all from 1 meter to 4 meters. There is no question that in open field one would need tons of power but in a room of say 12X20X8, I would take a $5,000 Luxman class A 20X2 amp any time over a $1000 200X2 class AB amp just to satisfy my curiosity. I am not not sure if I can hear a difference but I am confident the 20W class A will do fine in a small room.
I only used that as an example but some people do have very dead rooms, and while it's rare, that is a consideration when designing a system.

I have TrueRTA software on my laptop and it has SPL measurement. My room is fairly inert, because it was so bad before I re-worked it in '02. No more flutter, the sound is diffused and there are several places where the reflections are broken up, instead of causing standing waves. Not perfect, but my speakers disappear pretty nicely. My 100W/ch ES integrated amp does a good job of filling it with the volume control at about 10:00. When I connect my Conrad Johnson power amp to the pre-amp outs I had created, it's a sweeter sound and not quite as loud but still sounds fantastic because it's not a huge room.

You're right- room surfaces and geometry have everything to do with whether any equipment will sound good, bad or in the middle. That's also one thing that completely baffles me about this industry, at least, in the Milwaukee area. We have some pretty decent shops here and almost no attention is paid to acoustical treatment. I ran into an old customer last year and his ex-girlfriend had one place install TVs, cable TV jacks and distributed audio, but she was very unhappy and complained, held money back, said she wanted to return everything, etc. I went there and listened to it. They were right- it sounded terrible but I really didn't need him to turn it on to tell him that it would. Big, open floor plan with high ceilings, hardwood floors, lots of windows, very little furniture, no window treatments and no rugs or carpet. The speakers were ceiling mounted and in one corner of this big space, they had a stereo with a ton of power and medium floor standing towers. All they did was complain but they have no idea why it sounded as bad as it did and if they had come to me, I would have told them up front that it wouldn't sound good unless they decorated the place and put something in that would absorb the sound. That place had an RT60 in whole seconds.

Class A amps definitely have a sound of their own. Pioneer had one in the mid-'80s and for 35W/ch, it was sweet. The 200x2 will be louder but that's not really the only goal, anyway.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I always say more power is better, no argument from me at all. It is just too bad that most people have to make choices to fit their budget.

Regarding the 1812 CD, I had listened to a few over the years. I still have the Telarc one that has the real cannon recording. Telarc claimed it went as high as 3000 Hz during the initial crack upon ignition and all the way down to 6 Hz in the follow-up boom. My system has no problem reproducing the cannon shots nicely (except for anything below 15 Hz I guess) with or without the external amp hooked up, obviously in 2 channel stereo only. I am not aware of any 1812 recorded in SACD or DVDA using real cannons. If you know of one please let me know and I will order a copy right away.
The first CDs were put out on CBS, and to be honest, I don't remember if that version was Telarc, or not. Stravinsky's Firebird is another Telarc recording that I really like for testing a system.

Re: people having to make choices to fit their budget- maybe with the redistribution, we can all have what we want, eh?:D or :mad:, depending.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
That's also one thing that completely baffles me about this industry, at least, in the Milwaukee area. We have some pretty decent shops here and almost no attention is paid to acoustical treatment.
For sure it is not just the Milwaukee area. I also know of a few shops that sell high end electronics and speaker and yet pay no attention to room treatment. I can't see that being a way to keep their cost down either as room treatment cost is a one time capex. It is indeed baffling.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The first CDs were put out on CBS, and to be honest, I don't remember if that version was Telarc, or not. Stravinsky's Firebird is another Telarc recording that I really like for testing a system.

Re: people having to make choices to fit their budget- maybe with the redistribution, we can all have what we want, eh?:D or :mad:, depending.
I don't have the Telarc Firebird but my Sheffield Lab one is very nice too. Regarding redistribution we are not so lucky up here, we have a conservative government.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I don't have the Telarc Firebird but my Sheffield Lab one is very nice too. Regarding redistribution we are not so lucky up here, we have a conservative government.
Where is "here"?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The first CDs were put out on CBS, and to be honest, I don't remember if that version was Telarc, or not. Stravinsky's Firebird is another Telarc recording that I really like for testing a system.

Re: people having to make choices to fit their budget- maybe with the redistribution, we can all have what we want, eh?:D or :mad:, depending.
Where is "here"?
Canada, your neighbor 'up' north..:D
 
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