pyle amp with 70 volts speakers: low quality sound. how to fix?

[tuva]

Hi all, i am new to this forum.
I have recently bought the following:
1) AMP: Pyle amp pt506bt.5. (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VJLGK1Q?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details)

2) Pyle PSPVC4 distribution box (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013CH7UK?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details)

3) 8 Rockville Cube 70v Black 3.5" Commercial Swivel Wall Mount Restaurant Speakers (https://www.ebay.com/itm/393129930239?_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item5b885eadff:g:dFYAAOSwl29gU05Z:sc:ShippingMethodStandard!33195!US!-1&amdata=enc:AQAGAAAC4PYe5NmHp%2B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSU8qUIAeVPdz29zRlje3LgxF1rkS%2F%2Bmyg0xdZsHkqOF7pIW7yElnQtS%2FbPX%2FJAfcQ6%2FEu4%2B%2BXD%2BXTnqcy8Am5vHgpzLVNg%2FcFjdbqpzS54R97XI5iECO0%2Fu0B25aXGrg0PtJr%2FFop6L83QyRx%2Fu5hoEJklIsc8TrTeccqACpBVSRMusNTUgDsDjajYmSx0vXV3c1aVO4somKdydApipEWBrqmEisvznfoIG9kp7A%2Be3fG4URX%2BY0n4iUd2KoB%2FrUEAMWIz4XiTj2wZDe%2Bgj3BuHf55mbhYGPaWP%2BBUyCUu8csx7tgFg4GkSa2A0krWSyO%2Fm9zBbR93HyE2ro%2BEweqNQjG%2F2qTAVeSDrj7mUw3QX2hv0LVDwSMLQky9%2BeX%2FIvQ%2B1vMuu7oC6wVb%2BL0yuQmpp9GECVXZC1H8v2yRwqUa1IiBQ9iq1xfMT8dsPIRudmAKX8wHIcJGPdMbkeUt%2BcKwJbckpdkxWWodxwbJpiDGks3%2FG8CjtvBNgs3PdxgzEdDNpl1klGfcA5U6COLUF%2F6T2Yl76I87ymcnkr2GXOnVejqUo9qZelHZTNfBpXDHdnJ2Zlp1duEeZ6Ce5V3Ae%2BO0eTHwMUsN%2BeVyU%2B9abr6VOLK6HqVZblflFpt1hVLyztY3cpH1GYTAWd7KOBwkpJ7Qs8mB8fTWlsjfufMJ2dNtGeU14Yav3nuVgwxgHNO94lNsih4SdLFRizx%2B%2FMTfx%2ByrUHvaRejdQLlohpNEasRIHjD%2FvZ4ZpZQg6KWOAsKxCq%2FNDLcEEkusZv17C6akR1jxHScVdP3GZX18F9u3uzAaWUI9qFwjf3SKZV3D7HaaGzIjyuO99hirUNpGs95VUEfuixIZVWh%2B5InobcX1nSk5HuXZJLLTR1X30l%2BN1C9PbXilz5F3nzpqsSMJrZePGFHr%2FgentcpmvKquPoo6bhqfUs%3D|clp:2334524|tkp:BFBM1unir7xf)

I noticed that speackers are 70 volts after installing them

I have a very low volume sound, bad quality with noises. Can someone explain me the possible cause?
How can i fix it?
i am asking before starting to change amp or speakers.

I also think i need a subwoofer. Can you suggest one on the low budget but good quality?
I need to put ambient music in a restaurant.

thani you very much for your help!!

 

[Eppie]

Hi all, i am new to this forum.
I have recently bought the following:
1) AMP: Pyle amp pt506bt.5. (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VJLGK1Q?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details)

2) Pyle PSPVC4 distribution box (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013CH7UK?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details)

3) 8 Rockville Cube 70v Black 3.5" Commercial Swivel Wall Mount Restaurant Speakers

I noticed that speackers are 70 volts after installing them

I have a very low volume sound, bad quality with noises. Can someone explain me the possible cause?
How can i fix it?
i am asking before starting to change amp or speakers.

I also think i need a subwoofer. Can you suggest one on the low budget but good quality?
I need to put ambient music in a restaurant.

thani you very much for your help!!

Thanks for stating that this is for a restaurant. This is why we ask that people come on to the forums BEFORE purchasing. 70V speakers require a distribution amp specifically designed for 70V speakers. If you're going with 8 or more speakers and it's just ambient music, then a 70V system vs conventional speakers is correct, but you need a commercial 70V amplifier to match. I would not trust the specs on Pyle equipment. It is very cheap and you get what you pay for. You really should have consulted with someone before buying anything as commercial audio applications are different from home audio.

@BMXTRIX is qualified to answer questions in this regard. I only have some general knowledge in this field.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for stating that this is for a restaurant. This is why we ask that people come on to the forums BEFORE purchasing. 70V speakers require a distribution amp specifically designed for 70V speakers. If you're going with 8 or more speakers and it's just ambient music, then a 70V system vs conventional speakers is correct, but you need a commercial 70V amplifier to match. I would not trust the specs on Pyle equipment. It is very cheap and you get what you pay for. You really should have consulted with someone before buying anything as commercial audio applications are different from home audio.

@BMXTRIX is qualified to answer questions in this regard. I only have some general knowledge in this field.

Thanks for stating that this is for a restaurant. This is why we ask that people come on to the forums BEFORE purchasing. 70V speakers require a distribution amp specifically designed for 70V speakers. If you're going with 8 or more speakers and it's just ambient music, then a 70V system vs conventional speakers is correct, but you need a commercial 70V amplifier to match. I would not trust the specs on Pyle equipment. It is very cheap and you get what you pay for. You really should have consulted with someone before buying anything as commercial audio applications are different from home audio.

@BMXTRIX is qualified to answer questions in this regard. I only have some general knowledge in this field.

That Pyle amp is no use to you, nor is the distribution box. You need to change the amp or speakers. For restaurants a 70 volt system is a very good and preferred way to go. That is the pro way.

70 volt speakers should have a transformer in them. You just daisy chain the speakers together in parallel and you can use bell wire.

You take the power of the amp, and then the sum of all the watt taps on the speakers should add up to the amp power. In addition you can set speakers to have a different output. If you use a lower watt setting on a speaker it will play quieter than a speaker on a higher watt setting.

A 70 volt system is highly recommended for your situation and the professional way to go.

Dump the pyle and get a quality 70 volt PA amp designed for your application.

If you don't understand this, then call a pro, so you don't waste more time and money.

 

[BMXTRIX]

The speakers you are using have a maximum power draw of 6 watts. That's not going to be very loud, and the speakers are VERY small, so don't expect great sound out of such a product.

That said, because they only have a maximum tap of 6 watts, that means 8 speakers can pull a maximum power of 48 watts (6x8=48).

A 50+ watt 70v amplifier is plenty of power to drive the show here, and there are plenty of used options on eBay for really solid commercial amplifiers for not a lot of cash.
ie: https://www.ebay.com/itm/284552585034?hash=item4240a7df4a:g:nigAAOSwY2NhqRiN

You don't need any speaker distribution system, as 70v systems are designed to just be connected together.

So, you return the speaker selector, and you return the Pyle amplifier.

You will need a source and you should be using a decent source/mixer if possible, but it's not required. But, you will need to follow some Google-Fu to get things wired properly if doing it yourself as most 70v amplifiers want a professional balanced input into them. If you are using a source with an RCA output, then you will need to connect it properly. While you could just buy a Extron CSR-6, which may make the most sense if you aren't experienced, to get RCA inputs into the amplifier, you could also make it for about $5 if you can follow basic wiring instructions.

I'm not sure even with a proper amplifier how much volume you can expect out of cheap 6 watt speakers. It will depend on how large your space is and how much volume you are hoping to achieve. At about $30 per speaker, these really are scraping the bottom of the barrel, but the Extron amplifier was $500+ when new and is NOT a product which scrapes the bottom of the barrel.

You definitely aren't using the right combination of equipment at the moment, most notably that Pyle amplifier is not proper for the speakers in place and distribution is not needed.
That said, considering the wrong equipment is in use, I'm not sure if things are properly wired either.

 

[tuva]

Hi everybody!
thank you for your explanation.
I don´t know anything about this subject and I couldn´t find any expert to suggest me what to buy and how to install.

what i understood:
1) 70v speakers is the way to go for a restaurant. mine are small and not powerfull, but i´ll give a try. if they don´t work i will change them

2) my speakers are installed in parallel i need to install them in daisy chain with a bell wire

3) my amplifier and distribution box don´t work with 70v speakers.I need to replace them with a Extron apmlifier you suggest me (Extron XPA 2001 70V Xtra Power Amplifier).

4) i need to add a source/ mixer.

my questions:
a) is the wiring i showed correct?
b) is a bell wire the wire normally used for speakers?
c) what if instead of the Extron amplifier + source/ mixer I opt for Rockville RCS80-1 60 Watt 70v Commercial/Restaurant Amplifier/Bluetooth Receiver? I play music from spotify and i need bluetooth connection.


thank you very much!

 

[tuva]

one more question.
I would like to add subwoofer.
Is it a good idea? possible to add 2 passive subwoofer?


thank you!

 

[tuva]

last question: the istribution box doen´t work wit 70v? i bought to connect various set of 2 speakers and be able to control the volume in different zones.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi everybody!
thank you for your explanation.
I don´t know anything about this subject and I couldn´t find any expert to suggest me what to buy and how to install.

what i understood:
1) 70v speakers is the way to go for a restaurant. mine are small and not powerfull, but i´ll give a try. if they don´t work i will change them

2) my speakers are installed in parallel i need to install them in daisy chain with a bell wire
View attachment 52836

3) my amplifier and distribution box don´t work with 70v speakers.I need to replace them with a Extron apmlifier you suggest me (Extron XPA 2001 70V Xtra Power Amplifier).

4) i need to add a source/ mixer.

my questions:
a) is the wiring i showed correct?
b) is a bell wire the wire normally used for speakers?
c) what if instead of the Extron amplifier + source/ mixer I opt for Rockville RCS80-1 60 Watt 70v Commercial/Restaurant Amplifier/Bluetooth Receiver? I play music from spotify and i need bluetooth connection.


thank you very much!

No, you connect them on parallel, not series like you have. What is usually done is you connect the first speaker, and then run two wires from that speaker to the next and the next an so on. Then you need to decide how loud you want each speaker to play to set the watt tapping.

This explains how to do it.

You can use bell wire. The impedance of these 70 volt systems is high and so the current is low, which is why you can use bell wire.

That Rockville amp, should be perfect for your needs. Connect the negative lead to the negative of all speakers. Connect the 70V terminal to the positive terminal of every speaker. Then you are set.

 

[Eppie]

The wiring diagram you posted is series wiring. Parallel wiring is like this:

The distribution amp will have a step-up transformer and each speaker will have a step-down transformer built in.

The Pyle distribution box is design for conventional amplifiers, not for high voltage systems. Please avoid Pyle. Restaurant equipment will be left on for hours every day, 6 or 7 days a week. It is worth it in the long run to pay for reliability.

Bell wire is usually 4 conductor solid copper wire but can also be 2 conductor. You only need 2 conductors so if 4 conductor you can connect 2 pairs together in parallel at each end to increase the effective gauge (the thickness or diameter of the wire), say connect the red + green for speaker positive and the black + yellow for speaker negative but be consistent everywhere and connect the same colour wire to the + on all speakers. The jacket, or outer sheathing, should be UL2 rated to pass fire codes. The bell wire will probably work for moderate runs. Longer runs require a heavier gauge of wire. This site has a chart that gives maximum cable runs for 70v systems. Note how much longer the runs can be for 70v speakers compared to conventional 8 ohm systems. That's one of the main reasons for using 70v. The gauge of the wire should be written on the sheathing or the spool. Solid copper wire can break if it is bent back and forth many times so if it is solid copper and not stranded by careful with the installation.

Some good basic installation information in this site. Highly recommend you look this over for wiring tips.

For control over multiple zones, get a volume control specifically designed for 70v systems. They can be purchased separately (like lighting dimmer controls) and can be installed in an electrical box like a light switch. You connect the amp to the controls (in parallel) and then run the wiring from each control to each zone. If you don't want wall mounted controls, you can purchase an outboard speaker controller, but again, it must be for 70v systems and you will pay extra for a single box multi-zone unit compared to separate wall mount controls, but the wiring and installation may be easier.

Subwoofers will certainly add to the sound quality of those little speakers but if you're doing this on a tight budget that may prove a challenge. You need a 70v sub as well, not a home stereo sub, and likely need one for each zone. I found models from Atlas and Yamaha on-line that are surface mount but they are VERY expensive. You could probably return the speakers and get a larger full range speaker set for less money, unless Bmxtrix knows of some better options.

 

[tuva]

Unfotunately i cannot return them (i am in Dominican Republic, same reason i can´t find a technician) but they are really cheap, so i will change them with no problem.

thank you very much for your help! really apreciated.
I found a subwoofer from rockville with 40,15,10 W options for 100 bucks.
Let me see if i understood.
- if i add subwoofer (one or more) i have to add the power of subs to the one of the speakers to see what amp i need
- i can connect the subs like they were speakers
- i'd rather but a over powered amp in case i want then switch to more powerfull speakers

correct?

thank you.

 

[TLS Guy]

Unfotunately i cannot return them (i am in Dominican Republic, same reason i can´t find a technician) but they are really cheap, so i will change them with no problem.

thank you very much for your help! really apreciated.
I found a subwoofer from rockville with 40,15,10 W options for 100 bucks.
Let me see if i understood.
- if i add subwoofer (one or more) i have to add the power of subs to the one of the speakers to see what amp i need
- i can connect the subs like they were speakers
- i'd rather but a over powered amp in case i want then switch to more powerfull speakers

correct?

thank you.

What is it you are trying to do? I would not use that sub. It has no crossover. It naturally rolls off above 800 Hz, it says, but I bet there are break up modes. You will localize to that sub. If you want a 70 volt system with subs, then you need a much more complex system.

I would go with the speakers you bought and go with the 60 watt amp. That will be fine for background music. I tend to agree with the author G.K. Chesterton, that music while eating, tends to indigestion. I think the less restaurant systems are heard the better.

 

[Eppie]

Unfotunately i cannot return them (i am in Dominican Republic, same reason i can´t find a technician) but they are really cheap, so i will change them with no problem.

thank you very much for your help! really apreciated.
I found a subwoofer from rockville with 40,15,10 W options for 100 bucks.
Let me see if i understood.
- if i add subwoofer (one or more) i have to add the power of subs to the one of the speakers to see what amp i need
- i can connect the subs like they were speakers
- i'd rather but a over powered amp in case i want then switch to more powerfull speakers

correct?

thank you.

If it is a 70v subwoofer, it should connect like the speakers. The speakers can have different connection points on them with different wattage taps. Connect all of the minus (-) connections together. Speakers in the same zone should use the same wattage tap (all 10W or all 15W, etc.). If you add all of the wattages used from all of the speakers (including the sub), it should add up to no more than 80% of the rated amplifier power (you need to leave some extra headroom so as not to overdrive the amp).

 

[tuva]

The speakers you are using have a maximum power draw of 6 watts. That's not going to be very loud, and the speakers are VERY small, so don't expect great sound out of such a product.

That said, because they only have a maximum tap of 6 watts, that means 8 speakers can pull a maximum power of 48 watts (6x8=48).

A 50+ watt 70v amplifier is plenty of power to drive the show here, and there are plenty of used options on eBay for really solid commercial amplifiers for not a lot of cash.
ie: https://www.ebay.com/itm/284552585034?hash=item4240a7df4a:g:nigAAOSwY2NhqRiN

You don't need any speaker distribution system, as 70v systems are designed to just be connected together.

So, you return the speaker selector, and you return the Pyle amplifier.

You will need a source and you should be using a decent source/mixer if possible, but it's not required. But, you will need to follow some Google-Fu to get things wired properly if doing it yourself as most 70v amplifiers want a professional balanced input into them. If you are using a source with an RCA output, then you will need to connect it properly. While you could just buy a Extron CSR-6, which may make the most sense if you aren't experienced, to get RCA inputs into the amplifier, you could also make it for about $5 if you can follow basic wiring instructions.

I'm not sure even with a proper amplifier how much volume you can expect out of cheap 6 watt speakers. It will depend on how large your space is and how much volume you are hoping to achieve. At about $30 per speaker, these really are scraping the bottom of the barrel, but the Extron amplifier was $500+ when new and is NOT a product which scrapes the bottom of the barrel.

You definitely aren't using the right combination of equipment at the moment, most notably that Pyle amplifier is not proper for the speakers in place and distribution is not needed.
That said, considering the wrong equipment is in use, I'm not sure if things are properly wired either.

Hello! sill trying to find the Extron CSR-6 but nothing, not even another adapter. any idea of where to find online?

thank you!

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello! sill trying to find the Extron CSR-6 but nothing, not even another adapter. any idea of where to find online?

thank you!

That is a very old out of date connection. I have not seen one for years and years. I can't find that connector on line.

The only thing I can suggest is to modify the amp to a female XLR or TRS connector. That will take significant skill though. If you want to get this working this side of next Christmas, I think you should order an amp with current connectors.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Hello! sill trying to find the Extron CSR-6 but nothing, not even another adapter. any idea of where to find online?

thank you!

You can make these yourself SUPER easy, which is why they may not be available.

Get a set of cables like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Speaker-Splitter-Conductor-Shielding-Flexible/dp/B0916WWN9Z/ref=zg_bs_597546_32?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=KZ504HN8FRG8RRXG58MV

Wiring for the cable is SIGNAL to + and ground to ground & negative (jumper between all three negative connections).

If you don't have any Phoenix connectors (like the blue one in the photo) PM me, I can hook you up.

Add a 5-position phoenix connector and wire it like it is shown in this image:

http://imgur.com/QiO1ay1

 

[TLS Guy]

You can make these yourself SUPER easy, which is why they may not be available.

Get a set of cables like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Speaker-Splitter-Conductor-Shielding-Flexible/dp/B0916WWN9Z/ref=zg_bs_597546_32?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=KZ504HN8FRG8RRXG58MV

Wiring for the cable is SIGNAL to + and ground to ground & negative (jumper between all three negative connections).

If you don't have any Phoenix connectors (like the blue one in the photo) PM me, I can hook you up.

Add a 5-position phoenix connector and wire it like it is shown in this image:

http://imgur.com/QiO1ay1

It is so long since I have seen one of those connectors, I had forgotten what they were called!

Mousser has them.

 

[Verdinut]

I have to use four Phoenix connectors on the QSC DCA 1824 which drives the surround and SB speakers in my HT. But I prefer by far the secure SpeakOn connectors at the back of the QSC DCA 1222 power amps driving the three front speakers.

 

[BMXTRIX]

It is so long since I have seen one of those connectors, I had forgotten what they were called!

They are ubiquitous across the commercial AV installation market. I think pro stuff leans more towards XLR options and TRS in patch panel stuff.
Residential continues to happily troll along with RCAs... Which is largely removed with HDMI now.