PS4, XboxOne or Universal Player for BluRay?

[Sef_Makaro]

I saw several threads with similar questions, but couldn’t quite find the answer I’m looking for.

I have a PS4 and Xbox One but don’t have a universal player. I have used both game systems for BluRay and it’s sounds good, but I’ve read that they don’t necessarily pass the best possible signal to the AVR. If that’s true I might want to add a better player to my system.

Things to consider, I have a older Samsung 1080p Plasma tv and am running 7.2 (no height/presence/Atmos speakers..yet). Would there be any real benefit in getting a dedicated player or should I wait until I get a better display and/or more speakers?

Apologies if there is in fact an existing thread that answers this, please direct me to that thread.

 

[ryanosaur]

I really like my Sony x700, last years model. The new x800 looks very attractive, too. After using my PS3 back in the day as a blu-ray player and having to replace it partway through the cycle... I prefer keeping the console for games, and the blu-ray player for music and movies.
I wouldn't worry about the more modern player, it should run fine through HDMI, and you'll be ready to upgrade to 4K HDR on your TV when ready!

 

[Sef_Makaro]

I really like my Sony x700, last years model. The new x800 looks very attractive, too. After using my PS3 back in the day as a blu-ray player and having to replace it partway through the cycle... I prefer keeping the console for games, and the blu-ray player for music and movies.
I wouldn't worry about the more modern player, it should run fine through HDMI, and you'll be ready to upgrade to 4K HDR on your TV when ready!

Both the x700 and the x800 are pretty appealing price wise. I’ve become a bit of a Yamaha fan recently so I have been eying the BD-A1060. Being somewhat new to the video side of AV, it’s hard to tell how many of the selling points are more sales pitch than actual valuable features. It’s also a bit more than either Sony you mentioned.

I’ve also looked at Oppo players but have more or less ruled them out at this point, just from the cost. When I first saw the 103 and 105 at a local shop, the guy demod that system for me. NAD T787 with Vandersteen Model 3a Signature speakers, Oppo 105 player. The sound and picture blew my mind, as did the price tag. But now the Oppos seem to be around 3x the cost they were then.

Back on point. With my old receiver I couldn’t seem to get DTS HD Master to work from the Xbox but I could with the PS4. My new one works fine with either, but the PS4 is a bit loud. How does the x700 compare? Can you hear it running during quiet scenes?

 

[snakeeyes]

Both the x700 and the x800 are pretty appealing price wise. I’ve become a bit of a Yamaha fan recently so I have been eying the BD-A1060. Being somewhat new to the video side of AV, it’s hard to tell how many of the selling points are more sales pitch than actual valuable features. It’s also a bit more than either Sony you mentioned.

I’ve also looked at Oppo players but have more or less ruled them out at this point, just from the cost. When I first saw the 103 and 105 at a local shop, the guy demod that system for me. NAD T787 with Vandersteen Model 3a Signature speakers, Oppo 105 player. The sound and picture blew my mind, as did the price tag. But now the Oppos seem to be around 3x the cost they were then.

Back on point. With my old receiver I couldn’t seem to get DTS HD Master to work from the Xbox but I could with the PS4. My new one works fine with either, but the PS4 is a bit loud. How does the x700 compare? Can you hear it running during quiet scenes?

x700 and x800 run silent.

 

[ryanosaur]

Sony has been my go to for disc based playback... forever. I think quality vs cost vs usability is something they have excelled at.
The only thing that might be an influencing issue is the HDR+ or Dolby Vision conversation. I’ve been a big fan of Sony tales for the past several years, so I’m all down on the Dolby Vision side. With Samsung discontinuing their blu-rays, it’s going to be interesting if anybody(or how many) capitulates to support their format vs DV. But I prefer my Sony experience now to my Samsung experience previously.

 

[snakeeyes]

The 2018 x700 lacks DVD-Audio hi res playback. The 2017 x800 lacks Dolby Vision HDR. The 2019 version of the x800 has both.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
I have a PS4 and Xbox One but don’t have a universal player. I have used both game systems for BluRay and it’s sounds good, but I’ve read that they don’t necessarily pass the best possible signal to the AVR. If that’s true I might want to add a better player to my system.
....

I am not familiar with those game consoles as am not a gamer but why do you think the best audio is not passed on to the receiver?
The AVR should display what audio it is receiving.
Except possibly the Atmos is not passed, all others should be passed unless a CD has some other audio on it that needs a dac to decode.

 

[Sef_Makaro]

I am not familiar with those game consoles as am not a gamer but why do you think the best audio is not passed on to the receiver?
The AVR should display what audio it is receiving.
Except possibly the Atmos is not passed, all others should be passed unless a CD has some other audio on it that needs a dac to decode.

I’ve only read about the audio issue, I don’t know if it really happens or not. But what I’ve read is that even though the AVR will show some variant of Dolby Digital or DTS, it’s missing information.

Another issue I had may have been related to the source material and not any piece of hardware. When the Xbox One was set to uncompressed 7.1, I’d only get stereo sound even though the AVR showed all 7 channels.

 

[Bookmark]

PS 4 will not work with 4K UHD discs, but is fine for Blurays and it can game at 4K. The Xbox One can handle 4K UHD discs, Bluray and game at 4K. Both are capable of sending the bitstream (HDMI) for Atmos/Dts:X for films. Atmos is available on some games however, this is encoded by the console on the fly and is not quite the same as on films.

As a UHD player the Xbox One is not the greatest and a dedicated one should provide better results. It works and if you don't have an alternative or don't wish to have yet another box in the room, then it is fine. The Xbox is by no means completely silent compared to a stand alone player, but it is hardly the leaf blower of old and once a film is running you probably won't really notice it.

When the Xbox One was set to uncompressed 7.1

Bitstream is a different setting from PCM and this should be used for films. You can send up to a maximum of 8 channels over Hdmi for PCM, however if the content is only Stereo, like say a CD, then the other channels are silent.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

PS 4 will not work with 4K UHD discs, but is fine for Blurays and it can game at 4K. The Xbox One can handle 4K UHD discs, Bluray and game at 4K. Both are capable of sending the bitstream (HDMI) for Atmos/Dts:X for films. Atmos is available on some games however, this is encoded by the console on the fly and is not quite the same as on films.

As a UHD player the Xbox One is not the greatest and a dedicated one should provide better results. It works and if you don't have an alternative or don't wish to have yet another box in the room, then it is fine. The Xbox is by no means completely silent compared to a stand alone player, but it is hardly the leaf blower of old and once a film is running you probably won't really notice it.


Bitstream is a different setting from PCM and this should be used for films. You can send up to a maximum of 8 channels over Hdmi for PCM, however if the content is only Stereo, like say a CD, then the other channels are silent.

Totally agree about the Xbox/ps4 commentary and have to say, IMO Sony screwed the pooch with the ps4 and uhd.

As far as pcm goes, even if the output is 2ch, PLII, or Dolby surround would easily upmix that. My ps3 has been set to pcm as long as I’ve owned it. It’s actually old enough though that it struggled to deliver atmos, and as it was in my plan already to get more atmos, my ubp-x700 should be here today!!! I have been using a sony 5100 that I stole from the bedroom.

 

[Sef_Makaro]

PS 4 will not work with 4K UHD discs, but is fine for Blurays and it can game at 4K. The Xbox One can handle 4K UHD discs, Bluray and game at 4K. Both are capable of sending the bitstream (HDMI) for Atmos/Dts:X for films. Atmos is available on some games however, this is encoded by the console on the fly and is not quite the same as on films.

As a UHD player the Xbox One is not the greatest and a dedicated one should provide better results. It works and if you don't have an alternative or don't wish to have yet another box in the room, then it is fine. The Xbox is by no means completely silent compared to a stand alone player, but it is hardly the leaf blower of old and once a film is running you probably won't really notice it.


Bitstream is a different setting from PCM and this should be used for films. You can send up to a maximum of 8 channels over Hdmi for PCM, however if the content is only Stereo, like say a CD, then the other channels are silent.

So far it sounds like using my Xbox One is currently my best option without buying more equipment but would see som benefit if I got a nicer player, especially if I upgrade my TV or go with an Atmosphere type setup.

I have it set to bitstream DTS now and it sounds good. The stereo sound coming through the uncompressed 7.1 happened with a couple movies and games, wish I could remember which titles. I’m sure it was user error on my part, but I couldn’t get my SR7008 to upmix that into surround. I’d had to change the output settings on the Xbox to stereo for that to work. My A3080 has no issue like that. If I using another DSP (over surround decoder) doesn’t work, Surround AI will.

I think the PS4 will remain retired from movie purposes, it’s definitely a leaf blower.

Thanks for all your input guys.

 

[Bookmark]

As far as pcm goes, even if the output is 2ch, PLII, or Dolby surround would easily upmix that

That alas this would incorrect, at least from my PC experience with Hdmi, the Xbox/PS console may handled it slightly different. If you set Stereo on the PC it will only send 2 of the 8 channels out. If you set 5.1 it will send 6 and only when you set 7.1 will you get all 8 channels used. Yes you can up mix with Pro Logic or DSU or any of the other up mixers. You won't get Dolby or Dts, that only works via bitstream.

However if the source signal is stereo and the PC configuration is 8, you will get silence on 6 channels and the up mix will not work correctly. If you send 5.1 then two will be silent with similar results. On the PC you need to correctly match the source signal to the correct number of output channels for the AVR to correctly up mix the result, if that is the desire. I really wish it were otherwise, but I have tested it and know what works currently. Hopefully at some point Microsoft will accept this as a problem and dynamically configure the channels required based on the audio source. They may already do this for the Console and therefore would have no excuse for PCs since both use Win 10 as a base platform OS.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

That alas this would incorrect, at least from my PC experience with Hdmi, the Xbox/PS console may handled it slightly different. If you set Stereo on the PC it will only send 2 of the 8 channels out. If you set 5.1 it will send 6 and only when you set 7.1 will you get all 8 channels used. Yes you can up mix with Pro Logic or DSU or any of the other up mixers. You won't get Dolby or Dts, that only works via bitstream.

However if the source signal is stereo and the PC configuration is 8, you will get silence on 6 channels and the up mix will not work correctly. If you send 5.1 then two will be silent with similar results. On the PC you need to correctly match the source signal to the correct number of output channels for the AVR to correctly up mix the result, if that is the desire. I really wish it were otherwise, but I have tested it and know what works currently. Hopefully at some point Microsoft will accept this as a problem and dynamically configure the channels required based on the audio source. They may already do this for the Console and therefore would have no excuse for PCs since both use Win 10 as a base platform OS.

It seems we may be referring to two different issues? I was taking about sending 2ch from ps3 and being up mixed. My Onkyo and now Marantz do this no problem. In my bedroom however, the relationship between my pioneer receiver and PC was troublesome in doing the same thing. It seems to be ok now.
The thing I dislike about the Xbox is how it flags everything atmos and then doesn’t allow up conversation of non atmos tracks. I’m sure it’s more complicated than that, but I didn’t read too much about since I hate the Xbox controller. lol

 

[Bookmark]

More than happy that it works for you and your needs and we are probably talking about different things.

The original Pirates of the Caribbean films or the first couple of Harry Potters, all on Blu ray have 5.1 LPCM options as well as Dolby 5.1. Normally I have the PC set to Stereo for CDs and the like, and can play and up mix those with no problems at all, like yourself. Try that with those mentioned blurays and it is just stereo. Change it to actually match the 7.1 base layer speakers and the rear surrounds will be silent. To get it to work correctly I need to configure the PC to 5.1 just for those discs. If I left it that way all the stereo content would then have silent channels beyond the 2 or 2.1.

It is a stupid problem. Why can't the receiver see there are silent channels and ignore them, why can't the PC simply accept 8 channels by default and reconfigure the output on the fly based off the stream? As it is it auto switches between bitstream or PCM and renegotiates the handshake prior to playback anyway.

I'm the other way, I much prefer the Xbox controller over the PlayStation, but I'll still take keyboard and mouse over either for anything other than perhaps driving games.

 

[ryanosaur]

And this is why I say, keep the console to gaming, and have a separate machine for video and music.
Yes, both consoles have a history of pooch screwing. Since my experience on the PS3 and replacing it, the value added proposition of using them as an all around solution for disc-based media seems fruitless. Even the new iteration of the XBox required an update to add that functionality, which should, quite frankly, be entirely Native and Active out of the box.That both companies continue to flub this is ridiculous.
If Sony, for example, can't include the functionality of the 2019 x800 into the requirements for a gaming machine in 4K UHD with adequate audio processing and HDR compatibility... What are they doing?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

More than happy that it works for you and your needs and we are probably talking about different things.

The original Pirates of the Caribbean films or the first couple of Harry Potters, all on Blu ray have 5.1 LPCM options as well as Dolby 5.1. Normally I have the PC set to Stereo for CDs and the like, and can play and up mix those with no problems at all, like yourself. Try that with those mentioned blurays and it is just stereo. Change it to actually match the 7.1 base layer speakers and the rear surrounds will be silent. To get it to work correctly I need to configure the PC to 5.1 just for those discs. If I left it that way all the stereo content would then have silent channels beyond the 2 or 2.1.

It is a stupid problem. Why can't the receiver see there are silent channels and ignore them, why can't the PC simply accept 8 channels by default and reconfigure the output on the fly based off the stream? As it is it auto switches between bitstream or PCM and renegotiates the handshake prior to playback anyway.

I'm the other way, I much prefer the Xbox controller over the PlayStation, but I'll still take keyboard and mouse over either for anything other than perhaps driving games.

Lol. I definitely know some guys who would stomp on a console to get to their mouse and keyboard. Can’t blame them. I just haven’t gone there too much at home.
I’ve entertained the HTPC a few times and even started building my bedroom pc/HT into one. But basically the quirks you’ve described are some reasons why I haven’t gone forward. My old tried n true ps3 worked great and still does except for the atmos thing. new player should be here today!!!!!
In any case, I tip my hat to you for rocking the PC.

 

[Sef_Makaro]

Lol. I definitely know some guys who would stomp on a console to get to their mouse and keyboard. Can’t blame them. I just haven’t gone there too much at home.
I’ve entertained the HTPC a few times and even started building my bedroom pc/HT into one. But basically the quirks you’ve described are some reasons why I haven’t gone forward. My old tried n true ps3 worked great and still does except for the atmos thing. new player should be here today!!!!!
In any case, I tip my hat to you for rocking the PC.

Maybe I should give my first gen PS3 another go as a sort of dedicated BluRay player. Sounds like it’s a solid machine for it and with my current gear I wouldn’t be missing out on anything.

My wife and I are both gamers and she collects consoles so we have just about everything from Atari 2600 up to current gen systems. Two Xbox Ones (1 Master Chief edition and one Elite) because she wouldn’t give me the controller back after I let her try Destiny lol.

At least with a PC you can usually find some sort of work around with these issues. When I’ve found consistent issues with configurations that seemed to be coming from the console and not the source content, the message back from Sony/Microsoft has been that I need to submit a “feature request” for it to be fixed.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I would definitely try the ps3 as a bd player especially if you have one laying around. IMO it works really well. My ol’ fatty has served well.

Wow! A 2600... I had one of those.....when it was brand new! Lmao!!!

 

[Sef_Makaro]

I would definitely try the ps3 as a bd player especially if you have one laying around. IMO it works really well. My ol’ fatty has served well.

Wow! A 2600... I had one of those.....when it was brand new! Lmao!!!

I’ll give that a shot when I’m feeling a bit better. The PS3 is just one display at the moment.

Haha. I had my dad come test it out for us when we got it. I played his a bunch when I was little. We bought a Vader black 4 switch and a light 6 switch with a bunch of paddles and a box full of games.