PS3/speakers/Receiver very strange audio problem... it's killing me!

[Dash Kappei]

First, Hi everybody, I'm new here and I've specifically registered so that I could post this.
Hopefully I've got the forum section right!

So, I have the strangest audio problem with my PS3 Slim...


Lately I've noticed that my speakers generate a popping-like noise whenever some mid to low frequency signals are played... but only with PS3 games.
It' not really a pop either, it seems more like the wrong frequencies are getting to the speakers and the speakers membranes start to give up and then crap)
It doesn't have to be at high-volume, even at -30db the problem occurs, and I experience it the most with the dialogues (!) of Heavy Rain (I'm not referring to the common pre-patch known bugs), or the chains of Ade in God of War 3... and yet most explosions, crushes and so on are perfectly fine.

You'd think it's my speakers (ALL 7 of them?!), giving up for good, right? Well, nope.
I have the same exact problem when hooking up my Sennheiser headphones.

Maybe the source (games) is the problem then? Again, never had any problem when playing the same ones with my old PS3 Phat.

Also, blu-ray (even with the same PS3), *very* bass prone music, DVB-HD... none of them have any problem whatsoever. I watch movies at outrageously high volume and there's no issues with the speakers.

I'm starting to think there's a problem with my newish PS3 Slim, especially since I've never had this problem before when I had my Phat 80gigs, but damn it baffles me 'cause it seems also so far out there, it's such a specific audio problem that I can't but wonder how could it really be just related to the games and so random.

Have you ever heard of anything like it?
At first I even thought it was related to how burning hot the Slim (and the HDMI cable's plate!) gets (yes, it's in a ventilated enough position) but then reading online I've seen that it's quite normal and that shouldn't bother me.


The Slim's hooked through optical cable for the audio and hdmi for the video.
I've already tried to make anything possible XMB software based change and a format/reset status of the console; I also swithced cables and even the swapped the PS3's optical input to my receiver with that of other sources.


My components are McIntosh power amp 2100 "prosumer" v. (no V-meter and such but the ability to bridge mono 200W if I'm not mistaken), Denon 3802 receiver, Velodyne CT-120 subwoofer, Chario Constellation 7.1 series (Cygnus, Delphinus + Phoenix), Sony SXRD VPL-HW20 and HW10 (1080p projectors), Sim2 svp 420 HB (CRT projector).
Not to brag obviously, since I'm here asking for help to folks who might know better than me, but just to make it clear that it's not like I don't have the slightest idea of what I'm doing.

But yeah, I swear I'm going friggin' CRAZY with this situation: I can't just ignore it and it's also obvious that it's gonna ruin my speakers so I had to stop gaming on my home theatre set-up.

Suggestions would be very appreciated!
Cheers

P.S.
Hopefully if I've got the section wrong then some mod will move it to the right one

 

[Ito]

That is weird as heck. Just a suggestion, but I would try an analog connection instead of optical and see if it still gives you the problem

 

[Nugu]

Hm, this is a hard one. Since the issue isn't a constant thing let's look for things that change when it occurs and doesn't occur.

The only thing that sticks out to me is the Fat ps3 outputs only PCM but the slim can be set to bitstream. Try setting your Slim to PCM only. It could be possible that something is wrong with the decoding device if this fixes it. However if you are already set to PCM try bitstreaming.

Also if it isn't already, disable sound over HDMI just in case that is doing anything.

 

[Dash Kappei]

So sorry for being so late guys, I really appreciated both of your replies tho!
I thought since I'd get the chance to get a "new" phat PS3 to see if the issue was still not happening in the case of the old PS3 models (and wasn't just my imagination, eheh!), I decided to wait to try that before answering back. PS3 Phat's finally here and... yeah, no issues whatsoever with that one, just with the Slim model.
It's baffling!

I've also got the chance to look a bit more into the kind of effect that it transpires from the speakers (two towers Chario Constellation Cygnus for the L/R fronts and Chario Constellation Phoenix for the centre, surrounds -Chario Delphinus- don't seem to show any problem): let's say the audio issue it's very similiar to hard-tapping with your finger on a mic when in sound check you want to be sure the mic's turned on and working... it's just that this is happening when you actually hear mid to low-frequencies peaks and ONLY in games.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact the the Slim models mounts a different chip for audio streams decoding than what the old models had? Maybe it doesn't fit well with my Denon 3802? Because to me it seems I might be addressing some clipping/stream losing problem, related tobasically with the Denon unlocking and relocking itself to whatever audio digital encoding the PS3 Slim is pushing out (although you should actually be able to hear a brief audio pause when this kind of issues occur, right??).
Settings are obviously off for HDMI audio, on to optical and with Bitstream (mixed) or Bitstream (direct) nothing changes, although with LPCM there's no problem: That is one step further towards the "audio decoding" problem possibility, since the analog audio doesn't have the same issues.

Thanks again for your time guys,
and what a great community btw!

Ciao!

 

[Nugu]

If there is no issue using LPCM out via the Slim then it is probably a receiver issue.

When the ps3 is set to bitstream it doesn't process the audio at all and that seems to be when this happens - when you let the receiver decode the Dolby/DTS/format the game uses.

When the PS3 outputs PCM it's doing the conversion work instead of the receiver and it works fine.

If the receiver works for DVDs and etc outputting Bitstreamed Dolby/DTS then it is probably some kind of freak compatibility issue with the Ps3 and nothing more. If that is so you can just leave the PS3 to output PCM at no loss of quality and call it all good.

Everything seems to point at the receiving device being the issue.


Edit: after being bored enough to look around the Net I think I have your answer. Being a older receiver it is likely being overloaded trying to convert newer higher bitrate audio.

Short hand = Use LPCM output only on the PS3 so it does all the decoding to unload the receiver.

 

[Dash Kappei]

If there is no issue using LPCM out via the Slim then it is probably a receiver issue.

Uhmm... the fact that it has only issues with games and not blu-ray, DVBhd, etc so it would be kinda strange if that was indeed the case as you're suggesting.

When the ps3 is set to bitstream it doesn't process the audio at all and that seems to be when this happens - when you let the receiver decode the Dolby/DTS/format the game uses.

Uhmm.. Heavy Rain, for example, is specifically a game which outputs "normal" DTS 5.1, it doesn't even have a proper lossless 7.1 PCM track as far as I know, or a DD-True HD/DTS MA one.

When the PS3 outputs PCM it's doing the conversion work instead of the receiver and it works fine.

Of course you're only outputting an analog signal in that case, but I'd lose multichannels audio if I did so: My Denon "oldie but goldie" 3802 doesn't have hdmi inputs and doesn't handle PCM multichannels. Only from Denon 3807 model onwards (or 3806 PCM 5.1/7.1 with a special firmware upgrade) you get LPCM 7.1.
The built quality and D/a converters are drastically inferior on the new comparable models (3810) so I'd have to go for the 3k Denon 4810 to get a proper upgrade and that'd be only to get HD audio since my McIntosh 2100 power amps are better anyway.

If the receiver works for DVDs and etc outputting Bitstreamed Dolby/DTS then it is probably some kind of freak compatibility issue with the Ps3 and nothing more. If that is so you can just leave the PS3 to output PCM at no loss of quality and call it all good.

Yes, it works no problem with blu-ray's bitstreamed DD/DTS and even DD-True HD, DTS-HD/MA (obviously just pulling the core stream, which is awesome enough anyway).
Problems only seems to happen with *games*, and only Ps3 games at that!
No problem whatsoever with Xbox 360's DD5.1 games.

Edit: after being bored enough to look around the Net I think I have your answer. Being a older receiver it is likely being overloaded trying to convert newer higher bitrate audio.

Thanks for your time!
But unlike the "old" Dolby Digital Plus, the new high-definition encoded audio streams only output the core stream (up to 640kbps for DD True HD and up to 1.5Mbps for DTS-HD/MA) through the optical cable, so that can't be the problem because the higher bitrate never really gets to the receiver.

Short hand = Use LPCM output only on the PS3 so it does all the decoding to unload the receiver.

Again, unfortunately I'd lose multichannel audio :-/

Other than a specific Ps3 Slim related problem, could it be some strange-*** electricity peak? That sound issue's so weird that it's making my head spin, as I've wrote it's resembles a fingertap on a mic "tap! tap! Sound check! tap tap!"

 

[Nugu]

I forgot you could only get 2 channels PCM over optical, it's been so long I've adapted to HDMI fully. My bad.

Thanks for your time!
But unlike the "old" Dolby Digital Plus, the new high-definition encoded audio streams only output the core stream (up to 640kbps for DD True HD and up to 1.5Mbps for DTS-HD/MA) through the optical cable, so that can't be the problem because the higher bitrate never really gets to the receiver.

Actually there has been a increase in bitrate used on blu-ray (640 kbps) vs DVD (448 kbps) for DD and the Denon dates back there to when they likely weren't thinking ahead. That could also be compounded by any matrixing you may have enabled or possibly the dynamic-ness of game's soundtracks? I've found a few complaints where this could be the issue online.

The biggest puzzler here is the Fat working fine. At this point all I can say is ask a friend to borrow their slim. If it still does it, then I can't do anything but throw in the towel.

 

[Dash Kappei]

I forgot you could only get 2 channels PCM over optical, it's been so long I've adapted to HDMI fully. My bad.



Actually there has been a increase in bitrate used on blu-ray (640 kbps) vs DVD (448 kbps) for DD and the Denon dates back there to when they likely weren't thinking ahead. That could also be compounded by any matrixing you may have enabled or possibly the dynamic-ness of game's soundtracks? I've found a few complaints where this could be the issue online.

The biggest puzzler here is the Fat working fine. At this point all I can say is ask a friend to borrow their slim. If it still does it, then I can't do anything but throw in the towel.

Yeah, I knew that (448kbps vs 640kbps) but, besides the fact the the issue present itself also with DTS titles (Heavy Rain, God of War III, Uncharted 2, Killzone 2...) what it's baffling is that I have no issue with Blu-rays in DD-THD/DTS-HD/MA with the same PS3 AND with my mediaplayers with mkv (which are not using HD audio streams tho) and more importantly .ts and .m2ts files.
Anyway I think you got that right, the only thing is to borrow another Slim.
If the issue it's still there then I guess the new motherboard of the Slim ****s up Denon 3802's decoding, since the Fat not giving me problem pretty much confirms that hopefully it's not a receiver problem (for problem I mean = not broken or anything like that).

Thanks for all your support man!

 

[KampaiZ]

Don't know if there's any relation but this is the closest to my problem I've found so far. I have an 80G Fat with audio run through optical to my Denon 2805, video runs through HDMI to my new Samsung LN55b640. Have had no problems for a year but now only in games (so far) the audio cuts out but the rest of the game runs fine. NFS:Shift lost audio completely replaced by loud clicking. R&C:CIT played bg music but no other game sound. Happened to both several times. Will try some of the ideas here but would like to know if this rings a bell with anyone else.