pro's+con's with these three short list

[KEW]

i don't know much about center speakers but i think with the denon x3000 i would be able to hear "voice range" better say when i watch a movie. otherwise, i think the philharmonitor's LR will suffice for me and music where the center isn't as important... i think.

@Cos mentioned running the speakers in "phantom mode w/o center". honestly, i don't even know what is. may be a function i can adjust on the avr?

appreciate everyone taking the time to educate me and help me with my purchase.

The future is here! When you run the setup on the Denon, you set the included microphone up at the listening position. The AVR sends signals to each channel and listens to see which speakers are connected. It will default to the recommended settings for your configuration (which would be phantom center, though it won't call it that) and won't allow you to select use of the center channel unless you connect one and run the setup again.

 

[KEW]

Does the OP want towers or bookshelves? I'm a little lost...

I responded to the question of what I would get with a budget of $1000 for mains.

Dennis Murphy brought up the towers.

 

[MJ5ELRB]

Does the OP want towers or bookshelves? I'm a little lost...

didn't really matter for the most part but not huge towers.

once i saw the philharmonitors, they fit both the quality of sound and looks. i never really found a tower set under 1k i really liked "all-a-around". when my budget was higher i was leaning towards Zenor-5, Triton-2, and maybe a Tannoy.

that all quickly changed with life's developments.

so i was back the ol faithful on this forum, Ascend 340's. but then i asked if a few other suggestions might be out there before i purchased, and the philharmonitor's were presented. they just caught my eye, budget and such.

then i was told about their shipping issue. not a huge hurdle, just a slight wrinkle i need to figure out in my head as i'm not so well versed in this arena. my first real audiophile speakers.

@KEW pretty much answered my concerns and as of today i'm still leaning towards the philharmonitors. Dennis did say the turn around time was like 6 weeks from one craftsman but he also had a local craftsman build one or two and he was going to check that progress out. i think i'll opt for the 6 week build and get what i want, pay a few extra dollars, and enjoy my music.

if i was leaning more towards the AA line, i most likely go with Ascend 340s. and get a hsu subwoofer. the plain looks of the AA is a slight neg and the Ascend 340s had slightly better specs though i now know those can be mis-leading.

but that is where i'm at tonite. i''ll contact Dennis tomorrow after i re-read his email and get my thoughts clear.

 

[MJ5ELRB]

Ouch! Problems being a small operation and going international. The shipper is probably largely one man, just as Philharmonic Audio is one man!

The standard walnut finish is also veneer atop of mdf.

No one uses solid wood. Mdf is a better material because it is dimensionally stable, not as prone to resonance as natural wood (which has a grain direction, giving different properties in different directions), has inconsistencies (such as knots, reaction stress, and wind shake), and much cheaper.

The different veneers might be a nice option since it allows you to choose the "color" of your speakers. It is very likely that the standard walnut finish is not walnut wood at all. I'm sure it looks good, but it would be a waste to use real walnut wood, then darken it the way they describe. Walnut is a domestic to North America and expensive. Here is a quick blurb on Asian Walnut:



This really doesn't matter. I'm sure the Asian wood works fine. It may be a little softer than American Walnut, but if it is commonly used for flooring, it will hold up fine (as will any option you are offered- Dennis won't give you the option of balsa veneer).
He may be able to give you a solid color for the same price if that would work better. Not gloss finish - that costs!
I am assuming you would be getting a custom built cabinet from a craftsman/cabinet-maker local to Dennis. That is not a bad thing.

I have no doubt that the AA Towers would surprise you!
Dennis is unique (to my knowledge) in that he is not trying to make money off of his speaker sales. He does charge a little something for his time, but I know for my (and all) Philharmonic3's he made less than minimum wage for the hours he spent building the crossover and assembling the speaker. That is kind of like getting Bob Carver to build your amp, but at illegal immigrant labor rates!
My point is, he is retired and at this point in his life, he is more about sharing his passion for music and sound quality and not worried about money. At least, that is my read of him (supported by his business practices).

You may want to talk to Dennis again. He knows these speakers better than anyone, and can best tell you what the Philharmonitors offer over the AA towers - soundwise. As with most things, you pay a lot for the last few percent improvements in performance.
Unlike a typical sales guy, he will take what you say about budget at face value instead of trying to maximize the sale.

One thing I would point out is the AA towers are the deal of the century, but they are a somewhat bland-looking speaker. If you have a BB nearby, you can check out what they look like (Dennis doesn't change anything you can see aside from the tweeter). The Philharmonitors are clearly "not your pappy's speakers".

Some here would consider this sacrilege, but at the end of the day, we are human, and looks are a factor. If you want a speaker than gives good sound with an understated look, the AA's in black oak vinyl are perfect. If you want something more unique, the Philharmonitors are a good option.

Good luck! Hope this helps!

wow, thanks so much for the insights and help. you can see my reply to @ATLAudio that addresses where i'm at today. you helped a lot with my concerns of veneer. and Dennis has more choices with that now, so maybe, this could be a blessing versus before the guy in Taiwan passed, only one choice.

Dennis has been very open and helpful and i'm, as of tonite, still leaning to purchase the philharmonitors. certainly nothing wrong with the AA's, just the looks, but that is just me. but the Ascend 340s aren't any better in the looks dept either. if i don't get the philharmonitors i'll more than likely order the Ascend 340s.

i think Dennis upgraded the tweeters *and crossover electronics in the AA's and probably makes a world of difference.

after another email with Dennis, i'll know if i'll purchase the philharmonitors or Ascend.

thanks again for your help

 

[ATLAudio]

I'll also mention one more thing. If your budget was $2000 and you warmed up to a $2000 set up, I'd save up again for the $2000 set up you originally wanted.

Just saying...

I know of no other hobby which delivers buyers remorse like this one.

 

[MJ5ELRB]

The future is here! When you run the setup on the Denon, you set the included microphone up at the listening position. The AVR sends signals to each channel and listens to see which speakers are connected. It will default to the recommended settings for your configuration (which would be phantom center, though it won't call it that) and won't allow you to select use of the center channel unless you connect one and run the setup again.

oh! i see. yes, i did make use of the Audyssey. now i see what you're meaning.

got to remember the Denon x3000 replaced a 1999 Pioneer receiver. and my new speakers are replacing a set of Polk RT55i of same approx year.

so yeah, i feel like some force dropped me into the future with all this new insight!

thanks!

 

[MJ5ELRB]

Dennis let me know that i have these options:

1). Jim Salk will build the philharmonitor, with my choice of veneer, via one of these veneers, http://friedaudio.com/#prettyPhoto
*approximate time is 6 weeks

2). his local builder he is using also can build them in ~1 *week. he is going to see a few finished products this weekend to see his thoughts on the quality and let me know how that goes. he isn't so sure this builder can do "first-rate satin black" & standard veneer choices with this builder would be cherry, maple, and mahogany.

my choice would be "natural walnut" or "rose nut" that i saw on friedaudio's selection. or i would lean towards "mahogany" via Dennis's local guy.

i'll await Dennis's reply next week and see what his impression is.

 

[MJ5ELRB]

I'll also mention one more thing. If your budget was $2000 and you warmed up to a $2000 set up, I'd save up again for the $2000 set up you originally wanted.

Just saying...

I know of no other hobby which delivers buyers remorse like this one.

a very valid observation and part of my decision process agrees with you.

i'm never going to find the perfect speaker, either with 1k or 2k, and i could also be hit with another unexpected life expense, and two, honestly, i'm getting a little fatigued with all the research, narrowing down selections, etc. that may or may not be a good thing, the research/thinking fatigue that is.

after purchase, it's a 50/50 chance i'll be another one with buyers remorse, but it won't be because i didn't do much due diligence trying to avoid that remorse.

you make a good point, i have the weekend to think about it, and think, and think, and think,

 

[KEW]

Mahogany would be my choice as well among the local guys options.
With Salk, there is no question of his ability to turn out beautiful finish, but Dennis would let you know if his local guy can't compete.

I'm not sure I'm in agreement about the remorse. I have replaced/upgraded gear over the years, but I don't really think of that as remorse.
I would have remorse if I bought speakers at retail price and 2 weeks later saw them on sale for half the price.
Or if I bought a Bose System then listened to real audio gear that cost half as much.

In the case of the Philharmonitor, you are getting the detail of a ribbon tweeter with a good 6.5" mid-woof, and a top quality crossover (important since the crossover is at 2.5kHz, where our hearing is very sensitive) for $1000.
If I was asked what the next step for a better speaker was, I would look at the Sierra-2 bookshelf speaker ($1448/pair) or maybe the KEF ls50 ($1500/pr). However, I would expect the improvements to be subtle.
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM2/srm2.html
Note that the Sierra 1 is priced at $850.
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1.html

My points are:
1) the Philharmonitors represent a sweet spot. I don't believe you could find anything for $1000 to compete with it. What you could find is towers where the improved bass might offset the better high end of the Philharmonitors, but you would still want a sub with any floorstander you can buy for under $1500.
2) The Philharmonitors are at a level well above what you are likely to experience in your normal day to day activities. So unless you are actually looking for better speakers to envy, you are not likely to find them (but then, there is this site).

I would not view it as being remorseful if you win the lottery and go out and buy a pair of KEF Muons or Focal Utopias
http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/flagship_hi-fi_series/muon/overview/
http://www.focal.com/en/utopia-iii/184-grande-utopia-em-3544050698000.html

All of that said, ask Dennis about the dispersion of the Philharmonitors. I know the ribbons in my Philharmonic3's have very good dispersion, but not too long ago, you had to be in-line with the ribbon to experience its detail. He will probably tell you something like don't go more than 30 degrees off-axis from them, and you need to be comfortable that is consistent with your habits.

 

[KEW]

my choice would be "natural walnut" or "rose nut" that i saw on friedaudio's selection.

FYI, Typically "Rosenut" is walnut with a red dye applied. There is no Rosenut tree.

 

[ATLAudio]

FYI, Typically "Rosenut" is walnut with a red dye applied. There is no Rosenut tree.

For me Cherry and Black are the only options for speaker veneer.

 

[KEW]

For me Cherry and Black are the only options for speaker veneer.

These look really cool!
But they just wouldn't work in any room in my house!

If you are going to have coaxial with ribbed surround and the tangerine waveguide, why not blue anodized Al on white?
(apologies to OP for going completely off topic)

 

[MJ5ELRB]

FYI, Typically "Rosenut" is walnut with a red dye applied. There is no Rosenut tree.

that's really funny! i never knew that nor bothered to look up a "rosenut" tree!

 

[MJ5ELRB]

Mahogany would be my choice as well among the local guys options.
With Salk, there is no question of his ability to turn out beautiful finish, but Dennis would let you know if his local guy can't compete.

I'm not sure I'm in agreement about the remorse. I have replaced/upgraded gear over the years, but I don't really think of that as remorse.
I would have remorse if I bought speakers at retail price and 2 weeks later saw them on sale for half the price.
Or if I bought a Bose System then listened to real audio gear that cost half as much.

In the case of the Philharmonitor, you are getting the detail of a ribbon tweeter with a good 6.5" mid-woof, and a top quality crossover (important since the crossover is at 2.5kHz, where our hearing is very sensitive) for $1000.
If I was asked what the next step for a better speaker was, I would look at the Sierra-2 bookshelf speaker ($1448/pair) or maybe the KEF ls50 ($1500/pr). However, I would expect the improvements to be subtle.
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM2/srm2.html
Note that the Sierra 1 is priced at $850.
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1.html

My points are:
1) the Philharmonitors represent a sweet spot. I don't believe you could find anything for $1000 to compete with it. What you could find is towers where the improved bass might offset the better high end of the Philharmonitors, but you would still want a sub with any floorstander you can buy for under $1500.
2) The Philharmonitors are at a level well above what you are likely to experience in your normal day to day activities. So unless you are actually looking for better speakers to envy, you are not likely to find them (but then, there is this site).

I would not view it as being remorseful if you win the lottery and go out and buy a pair of KEF Muons or Focal Utopias
http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/flagship_hi-fi_series/muon/overview/
http://www.focal.com/en/utopia-iii/184-grande-utopia-em-3544050698000.html

All of that said, ask Dennis about the dispersion of the Philharmonitors. I know the ribbons in my Philharmonic3's have very good dispersion, but not too long ago, you had to be in-line with the ribbon to experience its detail. He will probably tell you something like don't go more than 30 degrees off-axis from them, and you need to be comfortable that is consistent with your habits.

it would take the lottery for me to ever be able to afford either of those. i do see where. the focal chorus versions do look good and affordable. though i don't think they are on par with these philharmonitors.

i saw the Sierra's and did consider them. didn't like the looks of the Sierra 1. likes the Sierra 2's but was a bit out of current budget.

that ribbon tweeter is something i like and the philharmonitors has that, great build and a bit less than the Sierra 2's.

listening habits would be in line with that. i typically sit in the same general spot on the living room couch. for my habits in that room, that dispersion should be fine.

 

[MJ5ELRB]

For me Cherry and Black are the only options for speaker veneer.

may be by function. i could do black for that room but not cherry, like red cherry or something.

Dennis's local builder i think can't do black as well as Mr Salk. i think he emailed something about that. Mr Salk's build would take about 6 weeks too. but that wouldn't bother me.

let me ask, why the cherry or black if it is a veneer? aren't most speakers with a veneer? or are they MDF or real wood?

 

[KEW]

listening habits would be in line with that. i typically sit in the same general spot on the living room couch. for my habits in that room, that dispersion should be fine.

Sorry about the confusion, but the numbers I threw out were purely as an example. Dennis may say 5 degrees off-axis, for all I know!
I have heard ribbon speakers that lost detail that quickly.