Professional Amp vs Home Theater Amp ??

[Undersound]

Hi

Im new to this forum,

My question is this. Before i start, let me introduce myself real quick.

Years ago, i was doing like everybody. I was listening to music using a gettoblaster... yep, the old days. I was young and not very rich so the gettoblaster was pretty much it for me.

As i grew up and i got my first stereo system, you know those kit that have ( tape deck + equalizer + amp + turn table all in one ?) .

Many years later (maybe 10), i made few bucks and bought a $1000 Home Theater surround prologic amp and a pair of speakers.
The home theater was a pioneer (can't remember the model). It was my first big amp i ever got.

Watching movies was really great, first experience with surround sound.

However, listening to music was a pain. Despite the fact the pioneer amp had all kind of features : Jazz, Accoustic, Theater, Dance floor, hall, stereo mode etc.... the music wasn't real....

I don't know, there was just something wrong with the sound.. For years i though it was the adaptation curve that i will get used to it or something.

Some sounds were missing when listening to music. Listening to a band was just weird. If there was a guitar in the band the guitar was coming from the left speaker, if there was a singer it was on the center speaker, the drummer on the right speaker.... it was like each music instrument had its own speaker... know what i mean.
Even the Stereo mode was wrong, If there was a singer playing (let say guitar) his voice was coming from the left speaker while his guitar was coming from the right speaker.

After several years (like maybe 8 yrs) of listening to surround, i had enough and decided to dump the home theater setup and to go back to true Stereo Amp like the old days.
So i went to a DJ store and bought a QSC professionnal Amp, with a Gemini mixer.

After hooking up everything i was just amazed by the sound quality. Sure movies aren't surround anymore. My TV speakers does the job for movies.

When listen the music i use the QSC stereo Amp and it's definately more natural and more true stereo.

With this kind of setup, the music gives the impression that you're in sitting a club, lounge or somekind of bistro bar.
Now the singer and his instrument are both coming out the speakers and you can hear the band like it was there standing in the same room on a invisible point in space. That something my prologic amp coud not reproduce with all the features it had.

Maybe it's just me, but i find Professionnal Amp to provide a more natural sounding than my Prologic Amp was providing.

Maybe my prologic amp was badly configured, i don't know.. All i know is that my Stereo QSC Amp is giving me a better sound now.... the difference is so obvious compared to surround sound.
Since then i started to think that professional amps are better than those home theater amps.

So for the last 5 years i've been using my QSC Amp for pretty much everything. Movies, Music, computer games, everything.

The only thing i hate about professional Amps the noise coming from the cooling fans inside the Amp.

But unfortunately those professional Amp are stereo, which mean they have those primitive input/output jacks in the back.

With modern TV and game consoles, it is kinda tricky if not impossible to use those professional Amp.

My game console use HDMI output and so is my TV.
So if i want to watch high definition TV or play video games in high resolution i have to use the HDMI. That means i can't use my QSC Amp to output sound .

Does it mean i will soon have to go back to Surround system ???

My question is this. how good are home theater Amp nowadays ? are they as good as professional amp setup?

Should i stick with Pro Amp setup or should i move back to Home surround Amp again ?

I don't like having tons of speakers and i certainly don't plan to install any additional speakers... I will stick with the 2 main speakers.
Can modern Home Theater play music in stereo without losing or displacing the soundtracks ?

In other words, Pro Amp vs Home Amp... what do you think is best and why ?


Thanks

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Stick with what you know and love. Pro amps are fine for HT, especially if you're not into surround sound. Use component/rca cables instead of HDMI to get around the cable issue (or just use HDMI for video).

 

[Undersound]

Don't you need HDMI cable for high definition signal ?

The game console only has one output and its HDMI...

Will the picture remain in 1080i 1080p using component/rca cables ?

 

[mike c]

dont you need a pre-amp of some sort to control the volume on those pro-amps?

 

[Undersound]

Most Pro amp i've seen have a Power On/Off switch and two volume controls. one for each speaker (left and right)

My sound adjustment are done on the Mixer before it reaches the pro Amp.

It works like this: The source is going to mixer then it's going to pro amp.... speakers are connected to the pro amp.

I didn't bother getting the equalizer module... my computer which is one of the source can do the ajustment.

The cool thing is i can mix multiple source a la DJ. If an MP3 is playing on the computer, i can listen to it and with the crossfader i can mix with other source like a movie or something. Pretty much like a DJ.

 

[Nuglets]

I don't see any reason for the sound to be different as far as what instrument's go to what speaker's like you described unless you are using some sort of surround mode. If you have analog outputs on the cd player or source connected to a receiver correctly vs mixing board the sound's that come from each speaker should be consistent if it's the same cd and it's set to direct/stereo mode..

 

[Undersound]

nope, the stereo mode on the Surround Home System i had was not as good as the stereo mode im getting now with the Pro Amp.. i have very good ears. But to be honnest, you don't really need good ears to notice it.

Maybe the problem was the home theater amp i was using. All i can tell is that with the Pro Amp my sound is amazingly natural compared to what i had on the home Surround Amp.

Even if the CD was specifically recorded in stereo, the surround amp still has the final word and will still decide which speaker has to play whatever track. The Home surround Amp set to (stereo mode) was not giving it right.
Like i said, with the Surround Amp in stereo mode, i was getting half of the band on the right speaker and the rest on the left speaker for instence (that's just an example).

For your own amusement, if you unplug one of the speaker you were listening to half the band
Maybe im exagerating... let just say the missing sounds were there but not as loud.

Maybe newer modern Surround Amps are better in true Stereo than they were 10 years ago i don't know. That's why im asking.

 

[highfihoney]

If im reading your post & questions correctly i see a number of reasons why you are experiencing a massive difference in overall sound,you changed from running home theater gear to pro gear & are now running a mixer & a power amp,the mixer is basically a 2 channel preamp & by running it instead of a home theater reciever you have eliminated any type of surround processing like speaker size,crossover points ect.

From what you wrote about missing half the music i would think that your previous set up wasnt allowing a full range signal to reach your main speakers due to a setting within the reciever & now with the mixer you are getting a full range signal to the main speakers.

If the processing portion of your old system was not set up properly it would explain why in 2 channel you experienced music with no detail.

 

[highfihoney]

dont you need a pre-amp of some sort to control the volume on those pro-amps?

Hi mike,the mixer he is running is acting as the preamp,you can also run any amplifier without a preamp or mixer as long as the source being used has a variable input & a loudness control,some tuners & cd players are made with the proper inputs & loudness control.

 

[Undersound]

If im reading your post & questions correctly i see a number of reasons why you are experiencing a massive difference in overall sound,you changed from running home theater gear to pro gear & are now running a mixer & a power amp,the mixer is basically a 2 channel preamp & by running it instead of a home theater reciever you have eliminated any type of surround processing like speaker size,crossover points ect.

From what you wrote about missing half the music i would think that your previous set up wasnt allowing a full range signal to reach your main speakers due to a setting within the reciever & now with the mixer you are getting a full range signal to the main speakers.

If the processing portion of your old system was not set up properly it would explain why in 2 channel you experienced music with no detail.

That's correct... i know my post was a big and badly written

Nothing much i could do with the processing portion of the old system.
All the adjustment you had in Stereo Mode were: Left, Right, Trebble, Bass
and maybe a couple of additional special effects i don't remember.
I tried them all and was never satisfied.

According to you, the surround processing was the cause of the problem.
So my question is this, Are the 2006-2007 HomeTheater Amps still processing even in Stereo mode like that ?

I look at those new Home Amps and they require like 7 speakers now. I don't see how i can wire 7 speakers. Thats just too many wire for me. Thats why i want to stick with 2 or 3 speakers... but im affraid i will lose some sound quality because of the surround processing.

All i need is to be able to get HDMI on the Pro Amp. Maybe i should look for a DJ mixer that has HDMI input ??? do they exist ?

 

[Nick250]

That's correct... i know my post was a big and badly written

Nothing much i could do with the processing portion of the old system.
All the adjustment you had in Stereo Mode were: Left, Right, Trebble, Bass
and maybe a couple of additional special effects i don't remember.
I tried them all and was never satisfied.

According to you, the surround processing was the cause of the problem.
So my question is this, Are the 2006-2007 HomeTheater Amps still processing even in Stereo mode like that ?

I look at those new Home Amps and they require like 7 speakers now. I don't see how i can wire 7 speakers. Thats just too many wire for me. Thats why i want to stick with 2 or 3 speakers... but im affraid i will lose some sound quality because of the surround processing.

All i need is to be able to get HDMI on the Pro Amp. Maybe i should look for a DJ mixer that has HDMI input ??? do they exist ?

Most of the current generation of AV receivers allow you to chose processed or unprocessed stereo sound. Also, just because a receiver is capable of 7 channel sound does not mean you have to use 7 speakers. You can use any number of speakers you like up to 7.

Nick

 

[highfihoney]

That's correct... i know my post was a big and badly written

Nothing much i could do with the processing portion of the old system.
All the adjustment you had in Stereo Mode were: Left, Right, Trebble, Bass
and maybe a couple of additional special effects i don't remember.
I tried them all and was never satisfied.

According to you, the surround processing was the cause of the problem.
So my question is this, Are the 2006-2007 HomeTheater Amps still processing even in Stereo mode like that ?

I look at those new Home Amps and they require like 7 speakers now. I don't see how i can wire 7 speakers. Thats just too many wire for me. Thats why i want to stick with 2 or 3 speakers... but im affraid i will lose some sound quality because of the surround processing.

All i need is to be able to get HDMI on the Pro Amp. Maybe i should look for a DJ mixer that has HDMI input ??? do they exist ?

Hi,in order to help you we should get straight what all of this equipment were talking about is called & what each peices capabilities are,I think what your calling a "home theater amp" is actually a reciever.

An amplifier amplifies or boosts the signal being sent from the source.

A source can be a cd player, dvd player, tape deck, turntable ect.

A preamplifier works in conbination with an amplifier basically taking the signal from the amp & allowing you to control the signal via volume,balance,bass,treble ect effectivly telling the amplifier what type of sound to send to the speakers & how loud it is,a pro mixer is a type of preamp also.

A surround processor controls all the surround functions such as choosing the crossover point where the bass is being sent to the subwoofer instead of the main speakers,it also controls a vast amount of speaker settings like different size settings for front speakers & rear speakers,seperate volume settings for rear & center speakers,surround effects ect.

A home theater reciever is a combination of an amplifier,preamp,processor & a tuner section.All home theater recievers have the ability to play music strictly in 2 channel without any form of processing but the unit will need to be set properly in order for it to play properly.The reason i spoke about your old reciever being set up wrong is the drastic way you described the sound,something as drastic as half of the music being missing either spells equipment malfunction or improper set up in the processing & improper mode selection is a very easy thing to do,one wrong selection or a combination of 2 will dramatically affect the sound.

 

[Nuglets]

nope, the stereo mode on the Surround Home System i had was not as good as the stereo mode im getting now with the Pro Amp.. i have very good ears. But to be honnest, you don't really need good ears to notice it.

Maybe the problem was the home theater amp i was using. All i can tell is that with the Pro Amp my sound is amazingly natural compared to what i had on the home Surround Amp.

Even if the CD was specifically recorded in stereo, the surround amp still has the final word and will still decide which speaker has to play whatever track. The Home surround Amp set to (stereo mode) was not giving it right.
Like i said, with the Surround Amp in stereo mode, i was getting half of the band on the right speaker and the rest on the left speaker for instence (that's just an example).
For your own amusement, if you unplug one of the speaker you were listening to half the band
Maybe im exagerating... let just say the missing sounds were there but not as loud.

Maybe newer modern Surround Amps are better in true Stereo than they were 10 years ago i don't know. That's why im asking.

I know what it's like to unplug one speaker and I do realize that you don't get every instrument with both speaker's. If that were so it would be mono. The thing that I don't agree with is that the receiver will change this because it won't. It is dependent on how the track was recorded. If you somehow have you mixer running in mono going through both speaker's then you could be right about what you are hearing, but stereo mode is recorded specifically so different sound's come out of different speaker's. As far as a difference in sound/detail's that is completely understandable because a mixer is generally very configurable. My uncle has a complete professional setup as a DJ and I can tell you for certain that his sounds much different than my stereo system, so there I don't disagree with you one bit. I honestly can't stand the way his sound's though, when a guy talks(he does karaoke) you feel the bass more than when music is played. If you have a decent receiver it won't do any sort of signal processing like changing what sounds come from where when played in a direct or stereo mode.

 

[Undersound]

I know what it's like to unplug one speaker and I do realize that you don't get every instrument with both speaker's. If that were so it would be mono. The thing that I don't agree with is that the receiver will change this because it won't. It is dependent on how the track was recorded. If you somehow have you mixer running in mono going through both speaker's then you could be right about what you are hearing, but stereo mode is recorded specifically so different sound's come out of different speaker's. As far as a difference in sound/detail's that is completely understandable because a mixer is generally very configurable. My uncle has a complete professional setup as a DJ and I can tell you for certain that his sounds much different than my stereo system, so there I don't disagree with you one bit. I honestly can't stand the way his sound's though, when a guy talks(he does karaoke) you feel the bass more than when music is played. If you have a decent receiver it won't do any sort of signal processing like changing what sounds come from where when played in a direct or stereo mode.

I don't want to argue on something i know it happened to me. I mean, i wasn't on speed and wasn't always smoking. I have very very good ears..
I had the Prologic receiver for years, thats long enough to see the difference... . On the prologic i was not getting the stereo i was supposed to.

If you uncle's setup has too much bass it just means he wanted bass... its his sound adjustment... i doubt it has anything to do with his equipment quality to be honest. You can add and remove bass wether your equipment is a HomeTheater or DJ gears. Unless his bass is caused by his speakers, im sure he can cut it.

Home Theater receivers are different than DJ equipments, they have processor unit (a processing chip) built-in which modify your sound when activated. This is why the music wasn't right on the prologic receiver i had.

The processing effect chip can modify your sound regardless how it was recorded at the studio. That i know.

You can even isolate certain sounds if you have the right extrem equipment..

My prologic receiver was doing something to my sound, Something i didn't like. and i know it wasn't a stereo or mono issue. It simply did not output every sounds at the right db level. So there was missing sounds in stereo mode

Like i said, maybe todays Home surround receiver are better than 10 years ago. Maybe todays home surround receivers can bypass the processing unit and output the original studio recording.
But i got so traumatized by my old surround sound receiver than im affraid to take that risk to go back.

Also you don't have to aggree or disagree, all you have to do is to beleive me when i say that i didn't take speed or medications when listening to my prologic...

 

[Nuglets]

I'm not trying to argue, I'm trying to help you. I have a very good understanding of how the equipment works so no need to explain. If you are listening to your music in Pro Logic mode then that's likely the cause your issue. You said it happened in Stereo mode before and that doesn't use the Pro Logic surround processor in any receiver I've seen. Maybe yours is different, if so then you won't have the same problem that you're describing if you get a modern HT receiver. I know the reason my uncle's setup has too much bass and if you read my post more carefully you will see that that I realize the configurability of a mixer and the changes it can make to the sound. Basically just to show that I don't think you are crazy for hearing a difference, but the difference you first described didn't just seem like a simple tonal diffenence. You said before that it was like unplugging one of the speaker's not just that some sounds were quieter than other's. No receiver should omit part's of the signal source unless there is something wrong with it. Maybe your ears are used to the coloration of the sound that you currently have based on your mixer setting's. You could try to connect your receiver through the mixer and see if you get the same problem, if so then yes your receiver is either messed up or just built very odd compared to any modern receiver's.

By the way, sometimes it's hard to tell the tone of a post when reading it, I know smiley's help but I'm not really big on using them unless it's appropriate so try and picture a bunch of smiley faces all over it so you don't get the impression I'm trying to agree or disagree with your opinion about what you hear or don't hear. I'm honestly just trying to explain that a receiver should not process the sound in the way that you are describing when operated in a stereo or direct mode so it will be easier to narrow down a potential problem and eliminate unnecessary variable's. If it happens in every mode including stereo then in my opinion your receiver is doing something that it should not do and you shouldn't be wary about purchasing a new one because none of my receiver's alter the sound in a negative way that you are describing, but like Buckeye said, if it's what you love than there is no reason to change from what you have.

 

[Undersound]

Well i narrowed the problem by changing the Amp

Now for what reasons the Prologic Amp was not giving every sounds in stereo, that i can't tell.

I remember trying several speakers (Paradigm, JBL, and some other) with phased and dephased polarity...i never could fix it.. and ive had had the prologic for years.

The Headphones connected to the Prologic was not getting the same issue though. So it got to be something between the processing and the speaker output.

Right now I use a QSC Amp, a Gemini mixer and a pair of floor Klipsch... Something simple, nothing fancy, All my friends go wow when they visit my place. So i guess its not just me.

But anyway, based on your post, modern HomeTheater must be better now. I'll have to check them out.

 

[mike c]

Hi mike,the mixer he is running is acting as the preamp,you can also run any amplifier without a preamp or mixer as long as the source being used has a variable input & a loudness control,some tuners & cd players are made with the proper inputs & loudness control.

oh, he didn't mention a mixer in his first post

thanks, I was wondering how pro's control their amps, was looking over the behringer price list looking for some sort of preamp ... thanks for confirming that the mixer is IT.

i might even try the amp ONLY thing for my PC

 

[Undersound]

oh, he didn't mention a mixer in his first post

thanks, I was wondering how pro's control their amps, was looking over the behringer price list looking for some sort of preamp ... thanks for confirming that the mixer is IT.

i might even try the amp ONLY thing for my PC

i did mention Mixer in the first post..

My PC is connected to the mixer. It runs all the MP3 files and video...
But i only use the PowerAmp+Mixer when i need quality and during day time.
Because when its late and everybody is sleeping, i have to use the PC speakers.

BTW, if anyone is looking for very cheap PC speakers :

They suck but they're cheap too. Its christmas sale...

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10048859&catid=11553&logon=&langid=EN