Problems With Liberal Democracy

[rnatalli]

I think the biggest fear many have is Mamdani’s policies will work. I’m not so sure, but will keep an open mind.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I think he’s out of his mind, and can’t believe he got any votes at all. He should also be removed from office for the list of people he doxxed alone. It has to be criminal.

 

[Mikado463]

just another liberal wing-nut.............

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/6008235-hong-defends-thanksgiving-post/

 

[mtrycrafts]

I think he’s out of his mind, and can’t believe he got any votes at all. He should also be removed from office for the list of people he doxxed alone. It has to be criminal.

You mean he personally doxed a bunch?
Or,


"AI Overview



New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani's administration released a public, searchable database of property owners potentially subject to the state's new pied-à-terre tax on secondary luxury homes. While critics and figures like podcaster Scott Galloway accused the administration of "doxxing" wealthy homeowners by publishing names and addresses, City Hall stated that publishing property rolls is standard practice required under city law. "

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

You mean he personally doxed a bunch?
Or,


"AI Overview



New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani's administration released a public, searchable database of property owners potentially subject to the state's new pied-à-terre tax on secondary luxury homes. While critics and figures like podcaster Scott Galloway accused the administration of "doxxing" wealthy homeowners by publishing names and addresses, City Hall stated that publishing property rolls is standard practice required under city law. "

The data isn’t necessarily new, but the searchable database is, and imo certainly careless at the very least, and very potentially dangerous.
It’s also a ridiculous tax.
Are you saying that this database is the right thing to do?

 

[mtrycrafts]

The data isn’t necessarily new, but the searchable database is, and imo certainly careless at the very least, and very potentially dangerous.
It’s also a ridiculous tax.
Are you saying that this database is the right thing to do?

No idea.
So, he didn't dox anyone, right?
I am pretty sure one can drive around in upper class neighborhoods, get an address and call the county recorder, who lives there. Not a secret.
That is how companies get names and correct addresses to send you junk or whatever by your name.

Don't need such a list to dox someone.

 

[lovinthehd]

just another liberal wing-nut.............

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/6008235-hong-defends-thanksgiving-post/

LOL as if the "conservatives" supporting the republicans aren't nuttier.

 

[jinjuku]

Walked back, or was never going to be a requirement? The only statement from Mamdani that I can find is one saying that ID would not be required. I'm on the fence as to the efficacy of this scheme. The idea is not unprecedented, so time will tell.

As food prices rise, Mamdani wants public grocery stores in New York. Can it work?

Experts say there’s plenty of precedent both in the US and abroad for state-supported food infrastructure

www.theguardian.com

And, while Mamdani may oppose voter ID requirements, the vast majority of the "liberal side of the curve" are not opposed - they just want it to be fair.

Voter ID

The Brennan Center supports commonsense voter ID rules, not requiring ID that many eligible Americans don’t have. We can improve the security of elections without compromising citizens’ right to participate.

www.brennancenter.org

There is a press conference with Mamdani where the question was asked about customer vetting. Mamdani stepped back from the podium to let someone from his administration answer you will need some form of ID.

Saw this on 'Nate the Lawyer' Y/T channel.

So they are indeed walking it back.

 

[rnatalli]

What I really don't like about today is you basically have two choices in the U.S. Either communism under the democrats or fascism under the republicans. Choose your poison.

 

[highfigh]

The data isn’t necessarily new, but the searchable database is, and imo certainly careless at the very least, and very potentially dangerous.
It’s also a ridiculous tax.
Are you saying that this database is the right thing to do?

Not sure it's new- county GIS databases have been public for many years and they often show more info than a city database.

Property ownership has been public info for a long time- before the internet, accessing it required going to the register of deeds-now, its just a matter of knowing specific addresses or a range of them on a street.

Now, was it appropriate for Mamdani to publicize it, himself? I don't think so. What was his purpose, if not to shame or make the property owners into targets- GIS usually shows the owner's residential address, too.

 

[GO-NAD!]

There is a press conference with Mamdani where the question was asked about customer vetting. Mamdani stepped back from the podium to let someone from his administration answer you will need some form of ID.

Saw this on 'Nate the Lawyer' Y/T channel.

So they are indeed walking it back.

If Mamdani let someone else answer the question, could it mean he didn't even know that this was the intended policy?

 

[jinjuku]

If Mamdani let someone else answer the question, could it mean he didn't even know that this was the intended policy?

Mamdani is the mayor of NYC. Are you meaning to insinuate that his cabinet and policy shapers act without his approval?

He was asked a direct question about residency wrt to the municipal grocery stores and tee'd it off to his expert that he presumably put in charge to give an answer on that.

He both understood the question and whom could immediately answer it and the very first sentence was 'an id' mechanism.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

He is communist garbage.

 

[GO-NAD!]

What I really don't like about today is you basically have two choices in the U.S. Either communism under the democrats or fascism under the republicans. Choose your poison.

I noticed a surge coming from the Democrats left wing, but lets not pretend they all sing from the same song sheet. Trying to get the Democrats to go in one direction is like herding cats. Regardless, until they add abolition of private property and nationalising all private industry to their platform, I wouldn't worry too much about them becoming commies in sheep's clothing.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Mamdani is the mayor of NYC. Are you meaning to insinuate that his cabinet and policy shapers act without his approval?

He was asked a direct question about residency wrt to the municipal grocery stores and tee'd it off to his expert that he presumably put in charge to give an answer on that.

He both understood the question and whom could immediately answer it and the very first sentence was 'an id' mechanism.

I'm just asking a question. I would expect that being the mayor of NYC involves juggling more issues than the governors of some states. So, if he didn't know every single detail of a program, I wouldn't be shocked.

I'm not defending him, just playing devils advocate. If he was caught out in a moment of hypocrisy, so be it. If he didn't know about it, maybe he should have, but it wouldn't be an earth-shattering revelation if he didn't. Politicians at that level have to delegate a great deal of responsibility and can't micromanage their people.

Like I said earlier, I'm not even sure that this sort of program is good idea in the first place.

I should acknowledge that your posting about Mamdani's apparent hypocrisy in this particular thread is appropriate, as it does point to a problem with liberal democracy - inconsistency and hypocrisy. It's a problem that totalitarian governments don't worry too much about, since such shortcomings are far less likely to be called out by the press, or common folk.

 

[GO-NAD!]

He is communist garbage.

Was FDR a communist?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Was FDR a communist?

Don’t know. But I doubt that’s relevant.

 

[jinjuku]

'm not defending him, just playing devils advocate. If he was caught out in a moment of hypocrisy, so be it. If he didn't know about it, maybe he should have, but it wouldn't be an earth-shattering revelation if he didn't. Politicians at that level have to delegate a great deal of responsibility and can't micromanage their people.

I think you are bordering on making a disingenuous excuse.

Voter ID is very much an electrified rail in U.S. Politics. IMO one of Democrats making. To be a Mayor of one of the most populous, and wealthiest city in the U.S. Exposed to the national stage, and you are trying to sell me that Mamdani is unwares?

Sorry that that breaks credibility IMO.

I think it was hypocrisy and they were correctly called out for it. For what it's worth I would have an ID requirement as it's a benefit for NYC residents.

I asked for where muni-ran grocery has worked in the U.S. at this scale and the lack of answer is sobering.

Any city needs good leadership. I straight up want what is best for NYC from Mamdani. But if you are in a leadership position and you KNOW that this has failed elsewhere and there isn't an established track record elsewhere and you are going to at minimum light $150,000,000 on fire...

You've also backed yourself into a corner because 'ID's are racist' trope and now you can't filter purchasers in your grocery store scheme.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I think you are bordering on making a disingenuous excuse.

Voter ID is very much an electrified rail in U.S. Politics. IMO one of Democrats making. To be a Mayor of one of the most populous, and wealthiest city in the U.S. Exposed to the national stage, and you are trying to sell me that Mamdani is unwares?

Sorry that that breaks credibility IMO.

I think it was hypocrisy and they were correctly called out for it. For what it's worth I would have an ID requirement as it's a benefit for NYC residents.

I asked for where muni-ran grocery has worked in the U.S. at this scale and the lack of answer is sobering.

Any city needs good leadership. I straight up want what is best for NYC from Mamdani. But if you are in a leadership position and you KNOW that this has failed elsewhere and there isn't an established track record elsewhere and you are going to at minimum light $150,000,000 on fire...

You've also backed yourself into a corner because 'ID's are racist' trope and now you can't filter purchasers in your grocery store scheme.

Is Mamdani guilty of hypocrisy? Yeah, it could be framed that way. Regardless of whether it is, or isn't, it is still egg on his face, as it's an unforced error on his and/or his staff's part. I understand that your central point is not about the ID requirement to shop at these stores, but about his not supporting ID to vote. I get it.

Inconsistency - or hypocrisy - is a central feature of liberal democracy. How can you be shocked by this?

My response to your original post on this topic included an article indicating that several municipalities around the US have established similar businesses. I have no idea how successful they are, or not - or even how the success of such an enterprise would be defined. I already stated that I'm on the fence about such a program - count me me as a sceptic, I suppose. It may be an epic failure, or he may surprise us all and make this a glowing success (depending on how that's defined).

I don't know why, but you seem to look at my posts with a cynical eye, assume bad faith on my part, then fire broadsides - "disingenuous excuse", indeed - generating needless conflict that I am certainly not seeking. So, please spare me the hyperbolic bluster, as it got tiresome long ago.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Don’t know. But I doubt that’s relevant.

If you don't know if FDR was, or wasn't a communist, you don't know what a communist is. I asked, because the link I posted shows Mamdani saying he supports a return to FDR's "New Deal" policies. That's what makes it relevant and also not communist.