Pro Amps...exactly why or why not?

[hopjohn]

<font color='#000000'>I was shopping around for an HT sub today when I stopped upon SVS's website. The interesting thing I found there was that they were selling amplifiers along with their passive subs that are more commonly associated with pro-sound. Amps with brand names like Crown, Samson, etc. Which leads me to this post and this question.. What is so terribly wrong with these amps that they are never discussed as options among audiophiles or even the budget conscious as far as I can see?

I'm sure some of you consider this rationale blasphemous, but I'm being serious, I'd like to know why these amps are never considered? Is it the dynamics? the THD levels?..it certainly can't be the prices or the power output. Heck many of these amps come with balanced XLR inputs. a feature usually reserved for high dollar amps.

So what are the pros and cons of using these in a seperates system? Please tell me. Your answers might save me a ton of dough.

My current HT rig consists of 3 Outlaw M-200 monoblocks running the front 3 channels from a Sony DA4ES receiver, 7 speakers I guarantee you've never heard of, and a Parts Express Vance Dickenson designed Titanic MKII 10&quot; Kit Sub. The sub sucks even in my small 11x10x8 room for HT, though it is decent for music.

I could buy the remaining 4 Outlaw monoblocks needed for the 7.1 setup or go some other direction.

Your help is appreciated.</font>

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

<font color='#000000'>Good question, and I've wondered about that myself. Here are some semi-educated guesses:

Distortion. Some pro amps may be more about raw power than ultra low distortion specs. But I doubt the distortion is really audible in most.

Hookup. Besides XLR connectors (which few home users have and many might not be aware of) there are other &quot;nonstandard (for home use)&quot; connections on some pro amps.

Snobbery. Obviously!

They ain't pretty. No 1/2&quot; thick brushed aluminum faceplates and such.

Marketing. Pro amp makers aren't interested in the home market so they don't pursue it.

Noise. Pro companies might not pay attention to things like cooling fan noise since they are generally tucked away from the listeners, well out of hearing range. You're unlikely to notice it at the local cineplex or at a Linkin Park concert!

That said, I know one reviewer for The Audio Critic mentioned that he uses a big honkin' Crown Macro (?) in his &quot;reference system&quot;. And they favorably reviewed a QSC pro amp once. But mentioned that the cooling fan was a tad noisy.

But yeah, it's occurred to me that a good pro amp is a good way to get a good power/dollar ratio!

And go ahead, try us: what are your mystery speakers? And how do your like the Outlaw gear?</font>

 

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#8D38C9'>Part snobbery, but also Pro amps are usually fan cooled and very noisy. &nbsp;The XLR &amp; TRS connectors don't make it any easier, either.

There's at least one pro amp that many audiophools consider a fantastic home amp: &nbsp;the Carver ZR series (ZR1600, ZR1000, and ZR500). &nbsp;These are TriPath digital amps that reputedly sound amazing.</font>

 

[hopjohn]

<font color='#000000'>This is about what I had expected. Snobbery beeing the key issue. If quiter fans could be used in place in these units and/ or adequate connections could be made, then this route is certainly worthy of further investigation in my opinion, and should be given more attention by audio enthusiasts and reviewers regardless of how these type of products are marketed.

I'm sick of overpaying for electronics in general. I find value type products the most rewarding. Bang for your buck has always been what gets my attention. I've been burned trying to go too cheap and been burned overpaying for reputable product. There is a happy medium out there, Im sure of it.

For example I got the following speakers for a grand total of $480 dollars shipped to my house...don't laugh. &nbsp;

They were only intended to be a temporary set until I could save up for my ideal set. They've served that role very well thusfar and for 480 dollars I doubt you could do much better in a 7 speaker system. Of course as time has gone on this is becoming easier to do than had been the case in the past.

The mystery speakers:

(4) Fidek FHS-8041 AL towers for the mains and surrounds which are comprised of dual 8&quot; inch woofers and a 1&quot; silk dome tweeter, rated at 4ohm

(2) Fidek FHS-288 towers for the effects which are made from dual 8&quot; inch woofers, a 5&quot; midrange, and 1&quot; silk dome tweeter, 4ohm

Sorry no photo

(1) MCM 6.5&quot; Center channel, 4ohm

Anyway I'd still like to see more discussion on this topic. Is there anyone out there using pro amps in a separates setup that could provide further insight? Or even if your'e not explain why you did or did not consider the pro amp option?</font>

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>

hopjohn : I'm sick of overpaying for electronics in general. I find value type products the most rewarding. Bang for your buck has always been what gets my attention. I've been burned trying to go too cheap and been burned overpaying for reputable product. There is a happy medium out there, Im sure of it.

Amen, brother!!

Nope, never heard of Fidek speakers. Nice looking, though!</font>

 

[av_phile]

<font color='#000000'>Professional amplifiers generally are meant for high powered usage usually in a professional environment like discos and open concerts. &nbsp;Bringing down distortion and the noise floor is not a design priority. &nbsp; Instead, pro-amps go for &nbsp;the most power and the most robustness/reliability. &nbsp;Some are even weather-proof. &nbsp;And becasue of the power requirements, they are usuallly internally cooled by fans that have noisy motors.

Audiophiles shun away from these because they can't deliver distortion-free sound at low volumes that a typical home would prefer. &nbsp;At low volumes, the sound of the motor fans cooling them can be overwhelming. &nbsp;

But i am sure there are exceptions to this that can be classed audiophile-grade.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>I was looking at some crown pro amps the other day, and while I don't remember the model number, the THD was like .005% or something very small. I was surprised and began wondering about this very topic. I will also be looking into pro amps as a consideration in my HT. I don't know about the fan noise though.</font>

 

[Mudcat]

<font color='#000000'>I am going the same route by getting &quot;Pro&quot; amps for my home system (music and HT). &nbsp;I bought two Alesis RA-300s and four Alesis RA-150s for just a tad under $1300. &nbsp;Did a lot for shopping around for the lowest prices. &nbsp;But Alesis does not use fans, just big honkin cooling fins. &nbsp;Although I am using a couple of super quiet fans for each three stack on amps. &nbsp;No fan noise and no distortion.</font>

 

[hopjohn]

<font color='#000000'>Mudcat can you tell us more about your setup? Are you using 5.1 system with a passive sub? Are your amps rack mounted? Where are they from your listening position? Are they in a closet? Did you buy the amps new or used? What made you decide on the Alesis beyond the lack of fans? Are you using a dedicated power line? Details I want details!

Sorry for being so curious, but you're one of the few out there that has talked about going this route.

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[Rip Van Woofer]

<font color='#000000'>These new(?) QSC amps look interesting, but they don't show MSRP.

http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/sra/sra.htm

Parts Express carries some QSC amps. Wonder if these'll be in the next catalog?</font>

 

[Mudcat]

<font color='#000000'>To Hopjohn:

I'm using a Yamaha RX-V1400 to get 5.1 (they call it a 7.1 with the &quot;presence&quot; speakers). &nbsp;My mains are Sapphire SBs and yamaha 315 subs (2), Mirage for a center, and Yamaha NSP610s for surround back and presence. &nbsp;The Alesis amps were originally purchased when I built a recording studio for my wife. &nbsp;They are still used for that purpose. &nbsp;The &quot;A&quot; speaker output from the 1400 goes to a JAMO JSS4-HP speaker switch. &nbsp;The preouts go to an ALTO headphone amp and pass through to a Behringer 2-way stereo crossover. &nbsp;Outputs from the crossover go to two Alseis amps (1 RA300 and 1 RA150). &nbsp;The RA300 output goes into another JAMO JSS4-HP and then onto the subs. &nbsp;The RA150 goes back to the first JAMO (they have two amp inputs) and then back to the Sapphires. &nbsp;I am not using all of the amps but I'm also not ready to unload them because I still have a speaker project going on (based on soundfield Vs driven from the B output), another crossover, and an open amp input in the JAMO. &nbsp;Its a bit of overkill but it has uses when I want to remove paint from old furniture - just put in a 20 Hz test tone and crank it up.

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[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>That's it! &nbsp;I am taking my ball &amp; going home!

What a system! I have not heard much about the sound of JAMO, but they look to be pretty good. Can you tell us about them? Can you, huh, huh?

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[Rip Van Woofer]

<font color='#000000'>Hey everybody! Let's party at Mudcat's place this weekend!

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[Mudcat]

<font color='#000000'>Having read what I just wrote I'm not entirely sure that I described the system correctly. &nbsp;When listening to music and HT I use the Yamaha RX-V1400 as the main amp and the Sapphires and Yamaha YST-SW315s as the mains via the JAMO switch. &nbsp;When recording my wifes playing (solo or with any other friends (I can record 16 seperate tracks with two Vestax 6 tracks and a Tascam 4 track and downmix them back onto a Tascam 122 MkIII) I use the Alesis amps to drive the Sapphires, subs, and Soundfirlds as monitor speakers. &nbsp;I can also (when the wife and kids are away) quickly reconnect the speakers to the preouts and via the JAMOs, crossovers, and four of the Alesis amps cranks out some Led Zepplin, Stones, Who, whoever or HT that will raise the hair on your back.

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[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>Since you revealed your music pref, you need to pick-up the new Zep DVD, and the Rush in Rio. You will love this stuff.</font>