Preamps, amps, and integrating DSP or EQ into the mix (2ch)

[gus6464]

I have bee reading articles online about using active EQ or DSP systems to help smooth out or flatten the FR of speakers in rooms. I have been reading about using TrueRTA, a PC, mic (like behringer ECM8000), and mixer (behringer UB502), to measure the room in order to know what to EQ. Now after asking about which EQ to use I found out that I cannot add an active EQ into my current system because of the limitations of my old AVR. So now it's time to start looking into separates.

Now since all of the behringer EQ devices use XLR I decided to find a preamp and amp which have XLR as well to simplify things. I also decided to go with a very powerful amp so that there will never be a need to upgrade no matter what speaker I throw at it. I have found 2 amps in the used market which offer gobs of power at very good prices and they are the following:

Sunfire 300x2 $800-$1000 Discontinued
http://www.sunfire.com/300TwoFrontPR.htm

Parasound Halo A21 $1200
http://www.parasound.com/halo/a21.php

Now I know some will recommend the Behringer EP2500 but I want something that will also look good in my rack and I will keep this amp for a very very long time unless it breaks on me of course.

Now on the preamp side I have really only found two which have what I would like but one of them is super expensive @ $2500 used.

Parasound Halo P3 $500
http://www.parasound.com/halo/p3.php

Parasound Halo JC2 $2500
http://www.parasound.com/halo/jc2.php

Now I know that you put the EQ in between the preamp and amp but there are so damn many. Behringer alone has over 5 different models and I can't understand what the differences are between them. Then there is the DCX models which I don't fully understand what it does.

 

[WmAx]

I have bee reading articles online about using active EQ or DSP systems to help smooth out or flatten the FR of speakers in rooms. I have been reading about using TrueRTA, a PC, mic (like behringer ECM8000), and mixer (behringer UB502), to measure the room in order to know what to EQ. Now after asking about which EQ to use I found out that I cannot add an active EQ into my current system because of the limitations of my old AVR. So now it's time to start looking into separates.

Now since all of the behringer EQ devices use XLR I decided to find a preamp and amp which have XLR as well to simplify things. I also decided to go with a very powerful amp so that there will never be a need to upgrade no matter what speaker I throw at it. I have found 2 amps in the used market which offer gobs of power at very good prices and they are the following:

Sunfire 300x2 $800-$1000 Discontinued
http://www.sunfire.com/300TwoFrontPR.htm

Parasound Halo A21 $1200
http://www.parasound.com/halo/a21.php

Now I know some will recommend the Behringer EP2500 but I want something that will also look good in my rack and I will keep this amp for a very very long time unless it breaks on me of course.

Now on the preamp side I have really only found two which have what I would like but one of them is super expensive @ $2500 used.

Parasound Halo P3 $500
http://www.parasound.com/halo/p3.php

Parasound Halo JC2 $2500
http://www.parasound.com/halo/jc2.php

Now I know that you put the EQ in between the preamp and amp but there are so damn many. Behringer alone has over 5 different models and I can't understand what the differences are between them. Then there is the DCX models which I don't fully understand what it does.

Check out the Yamaha P3500S. It looks very nice IMO, and the rack mount wings even come off if you want. It's fans won't activate in home use.

The DCX is the best model to use; it offers the ability to optimally limit speaker frequency response and to integrate/cross over ideally - fare more powerful/precise than a receiver. It also offers very powerful EQ system suitable for preference tonal adjustments and can be used via a link to your PC using it's software GUI interface. It has 3 input channels and 6 output channels that can all be independently adjusted/configured/routed as you desire. Because each DCX has 3 inputs, you could control all of the speakers in a surround system with just two of them. In addition, the DCX can be configured to control another DCXor several DCXs as a slave unit via a link cable.

-Chris

 

[gus6464]

Check out the Yamaha P3500S. It looks very nice IMO, and the rack mount wings even come off if you want. It's fans won't activate in home use.

The DCX is the best model to use; it offers the ability to optimally limit speaker frequency response and to integrate/cross over ideally - fare more powerful/precise than a receiver. It also offers very powerful EQ system suitable for preference tonal adjustments and can be used via a link to your PC using it's software GUI interface. It has 3 input channels and 6 output channels that can all be independently adjusted/configured/routed as you desire. Because each DCX has 3 inputs, you could control all of the speakers in a surround system with just two of them. In addition, the DCX can be configured to control another DCXor several DCXs as a slave unit via a link cable.

-Chris

Ok so the DCX is an EQ or a DSP w/ EQ? I would still need to measure my speakers with TrueRTA, mic, and mixer to know what to EQ right? Now since the DCX has a PC interface can you actually configure the device through the PC? All the things I have read about the DCX are with subwoofers. Is it basically the same thing for speakers?

 

[WmAx]

Ok so the DCX is an EQ or a DSP w/ EQ? I would still need to measure my speakers with TrueRTA, mic, and mixer to know what to EQ right? Now since the DCX has a PC interface can you actually configure the device through the PC? All the things I have read about the DCX are with subwoofers. Is it basically the same thing for speakers?

The DCX is a multi-tool. It is/does the following...

-Parametric Equalizer
-Shelving Equalizer
-Crossover System
-Dynamic Equalizer
-Limiter
-Delay Box

You can pick/configure any function you want to use in isolation, or use all of the functions at once. You can apply different configurations to every output channel, or link channels to all use the same configurations.

All functions can be controlled by the PC link session. The GUI is not limited.

The unit can be used just for subs, or for all of your speakers. It's not limited, and it won't affect your sound quality in any way, regardless of how good one's speakers may or [usually] may not be.

-Chris

 

[gus6464]

I was just checking the manual for the DCX2496 and damn can that thing do a crapload of things. Hopefully the mic and mixer will come in before the weekend so I can start messing with measuring the room before I get into EQ.

Thanks for all the info WmAx

 

[gus6464]

I checked out that Yamaha pro amp and it actually looks pretty good. Definitely a lot better compared to the Behringer EP2500. For the gobs of power it puts out at $500 it is a very good deal. I know you are all about the bang for the buck so are there any preamps (new or used) that you recommend?

 

[WmAx]

I checked out that Yamaha pro amp and it actually looks pretty good. Definitely a lot better compared to the Behringer EP2500. For the gobs of power it puts out at $500 it is a very good deal. I know you are all about the bang for the buck so are there any preamps (new or used) that you recommend?

Frankly, most of the best pre-amp deals involve buying a receiver with pre-outs and using it as the pre-amp unit. You will spend more, usually, buying a dedicated 'pre-amp' of comparable quality/features.

Also, I just got the Yamaha P2500S - it's even cheaper and a little lower in power - I'll be testing that for the fan this week. I'll let you know how it turns out.

-Chris

 

[gus6464]

Frankly, most of the best pre-amp deals involve buying a receiver with pre-outs and using it as the pre-amp unit. You will spend more, usually, buying a dedicated 'pre-amp' of comparable quality/features.
-Chris

I am guessing you mean a stereo receiver and not a full blown surround one right? Also have you encountered any problems with hum or anything else when using XLR to unbalanced cables? I wanted to go full XLR from preamp to DSP to amp to try and dodge a potential problem. But most XLR preamps are pretty expensive compared their unbalanced counterparts.

 

[WmAx]

I am guessing you mean a stereo receiver and not a full blown surround one right? Also have you encountered any problems with hum or anything else when using XLR to unbalanced cables? I wanted to go full XLR from preamp to DSP to amp to try and dodge a potential problem. But most XLR preamps are pretty expensive compared their unbalanced counterparts.

I have never had an issue. But if you do, it's not a big deal. You can buy, for about $60, an unbalanced to balanced transformer adapter. It converts the unbalanced signal to balanced and increases the voltage to pro level values at the same time.

-Chris

 

[gus6464]

I have never had an issue. But if you do, it's not a big deal. You can buy, for about $60, an unbalanced to balanced transformer adapter. It converts the unbalanced signal to balanced and increases the voltage to pro level values at the same time.

-Chris

Something like this right?
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/pc2xr.html

That particular one is $200 though but I will look around some more.

 

[WmAx]

Something like this right?
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/pc2xr.html

That particular one is $200 though but I will look around some more.

Yes, like that. But the Jensen is over-priced. Perfectly good units can be had for about $50-$60.

Here is an active example: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/294027-REG/Samson_SASCONV_S_CONVERT_Stereo_Line.html

There are also passive versions, but this is the first thing that my search pulled up, and it's only as an example.

-Chris

 

[gus6464]

Yeah I just found an active one at Parts Express for $50 made by ART. Right now I am looking into 2ch receivers and I have found a Yamaha and TEAC with tape loops for integrating the DCX without an amp for starters. I know I will be buying the amp for sure as well but I would rather start with the DCX now. You will have helped save me hundreds of dollars in the long run for electronics that can compete with the most expensive fancy stuff. Thanks for helping me save money so I can buy more LPs and SACDs lol.

 

[WmAx]

Yeah I just found an active one at Parts Express for $50 made by ART. Right now I am looking into 2ch receivers and I have found a Yamaha and TEAC with tape loops for integrating the DCX without an amp for starters. I know I will be buying the amp for sure as well but I would rather start with the DCX now. You will have helped save me hundreds of dollars in the long run for electronics that can compete with the most expensive fancy stuff. Thanks for helping me save money so I can buy more LPs and SACDs lol.

BTW, i recommend passive over active, if the interface impedances are compatible with the receiver/pre-amp you choose. Passive needs no power source and has inherently lower noise floor.

-Chris