Power vs. $$ ?

[Jaybeez]

I've been reading a bit about "pro" amps like Crown and QSC, with regard to power vs. $$ compared to more traditional audio gear like ATI, Parasound, etc.

I have a 2.1 room in my garage, and am not feeling the "punch" from my Yamaha Integrated (AS501).

A friend of mine works for QSC and I'm wondering if it makes sense to look at something like a pair of GX3's (2 channels R and L and one Channel Sub).

Most of my listening is CD and Apple ALAC files routed through my Schitt Bifrost.

Speakers are Ascend Sierra 2 and Rhythmik F12 SE.

All thoughts and opinions are welcome.

 

[markw]

With all due respect to a fine speaker, you're only going to get so much "punch" from a 6" driver.

Besides, that powered sub should provide more than enough low end "punch".

In any case, you can't use another power amp with that sub.

 

[lovinthehd]

I've used Crown XLS with my Sierra-1s, its a perfectly adequate amp, as is QSC. I'm more of the opinion a good amp isn't going to "flavor" the frequency response and it shouldn't provide more "punch" in any case without dsp to provide a bump somewhere.

You don't have proper bass management with that integrated amp, that's probably not helping. How do you have it set up in that regard?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Garage size vary a lot. Mine has over 8k cuft - it would tough to fill it with punchy bass from a single 12" sealed sub, even a very good one like yours. I'd recommend inexpensive pro-sub instead. QSC makes good PA subs, maybe your friend could get you a good deal on one.

 

[sterling shoote]

jBL 4641 will fill your garage with low frequency. It's very adaptable to integration; but, this unit does need a lot of power, something between 600 and 2500 watts. You may also want an equalizer. This unit is much like the JBL 460 which was designed to complement the JBL L300 one of the greatest speakers of all time in my opinion. I've wanted a pair since I first heard them but even used they are beyond my means.

 

[ski2xblack]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the pro amps, but there are a couple other issues of note. The Yamaha does not have pre-outs, so if you want to add an external amp you'll have to also get some sort of control/pre amp other than what you have.

Sierra's are small, and ported. You don't want to dump a ton of power with a full range signal into those, that's asking for trouble. You would be much better off with some sort of proper bass management if you plan on pushing the sierras hard.

And even with bass management, you're still restricted by the limits of the rather small sierras. I feel that garages demand more garage style speakers. Big ones. Preferably inexpensive ones. I suggest DIY (SEOS Tempests) or used Klipsch Heritage. Plenty of "punch" from such speakers, gobs more headroom in the power band than Sierras. They'll punch your lights out, even on that modestly powered Yamaha integrated.

 

[agarwalro]

Have you optimized placement (seat and sub)? Maybe you're in a null.

 

[lsiberian]

In a garage why not just build a couple of subs on your own. It's not like they need to look pretty. I suggest a couple tapped horns since you don't need the bandwidth for deep notes and size wouldn't be an issue.

 

[highfigh]

In a garage why not just build a couple of subs on your own. It's not like they need to look pretty. I suggest a couple tapped horns since you don't need the bandwidth for deep notes and size wouldn't be an issue.

What kind of garage system doesn't kick butt and do the low notes??????????????????????????

 

[lsiberian]

What kind of garage system doesn't kick butt and do the low notes??????????????????????????

Most music doesn't need 20hz depth of course you can always build a tapped horn with that extension. Since you are in a garage size shouldn't be a problem.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Why do you guys even need a sound system in the GARAGE ?

The only thing I do in the garage is getting in and out of my house and cars.

 

[highfigh]

I've been reading a bit about "pro" amps like Crown and QSC, with regard to power vs. $$ compared to more traditional audio gear like ATI, Parasound, etc.

I have a 2.1 room in my garage, and am not feeling the "punch" from my Yamaha Integrated (AS501).

A friend of mine works for QSC and I'm wondering if it makes sense to look at something like a pair of GX3's (2 channels R and L and one Channel Sub).

Most of my listening is CD and Apple ALAC files routed through my Schitt Bifrost.

Speakers are Ascend Sierra 2 and Rhythmik F12 SE.

All thoughts and opinions are welcome.

Where are the speakers located? I put my 8" two way sealed boxes in the corner where the walls and ceiling meet- the surfaces reinforce the lower frequencies very nicely and the garage is about 25'x26' with 9' walls and a hip roof, but I built a platform over the stretchers, for storage. I needed to test an AVR's setup mic, so I ran Audyssey- it sounded really good, without a sub.

Speaker location is extremely important, but a sub would be best, if you want to crank it- sending signal that's below the port tuning frequency makes small woofers do bad things.

 

[highfigh]

Why do you guys even need a sound system in the GARAGE ?

The only thing I do in the garage is getting in and out of my house and cars.

Some of us use our garages for more than just parking. My woodworking machinery is in mine and when I work in the yard, I have the music playing.

 

[highfigh]

Most music doesn't need 20hz depth of course you can always build a tapped horn with that extension. Since you are in a garage size shouldn't be a problem.

Re: size, you haven't seen my garage- I need all the storage space I can get. I guess I could make a big sub fit if I didn't have a rack full of lumber, three windows and a bunch of shelves.

 

[lsiberian]

Why do you guys even need a sound system in the GARAGE ?

The only thing I do in the garage is getting in and out of my house and cars.

I want a garage so I can finally get a proper wood shop setup. How am I supposed to upgrade my speakers otherwise?

 

[lsiberian]

Re: size, you haven't seen my garage- I need all the storage space I can get. I guess I could make a big sub fit if I didn't have a rack full of lumber, three windows and a bunch of shelves.

Can't say I'm surprised yours is filled with lumber. I still need a garage so I can fill mine with lumber and woodworking equipment.

 

[Jaybeez]

Wow lots of replies and thanks for the input and feedback!

My listening space is a converted 3'rd car portion of a 3 car garage, which was originally built as a recording studio (room within a room, specific dimensions, acoustic panels, etc.).

I have the Sierras on stands on the short wall in the front and positioning is about 8 feet apart and toed in slightly. The ports are pointed at a space of open wall between corner bass traps and a broadband panel. I find they sound better vs. ports pointed toward panels.

I've tried the sub behind my listening position and in various spots at the front of the room. What sounds best is about 4 feet directly to my left. I'm crossing it over at 80 and the gain isn't too high. I'm still playing with the various adjustments, so this may be the issue in the short term.

Don't get me wrong, the Sierras sound fantastic, with lots of detail and the sub adds to the low end. But as I've heard different systems, it always seems to me that those with higher powered and/or better quality amps seems to have a bit more "something" even at low volumes. In my OP, I called it "punch" but maybe "presence" is a better word.

So in thinking of more power I started running across posts / opinions on pro amps.

For now, it may be best to focus on my sub placement / tuning to see if I can get what I'd like to hear, particularly at lower volumes.

I may well see if I can talk someone with a better amp into bringing it by to see if it would make a difference. I know opinions are mixed on the difference between electronics, but a real-time trial might be most revealing in this case.

 

[ski2xblack]

I don't think more power will make much of a difference. It will allow you to play louder, but your speakers have finite limits which you may discover the hard way if you apply too much, so use caution. I still think you would be better served by choosing speakers with greater dynamic capabilities from 80 hz on up, and not necessarily those I suggested earlier, but something more capable than your Sierras. Maybe the mtm tower version of the Sierras, whatever it is, would be enough for the "punch" or "presence" you're missing.