Power ratings of A/V receivers (external amp)

E

EJC

Enthusiast
Hi all just a quick question here. Currently running a Denon AVR-X4500H in a 5.1.2 Dolby Atmos setup. Amp is rated at 125w per channel. How much power is actually going to the front speakers?

Would I benefit immensely by adding a Parasound A23 power amp to run the fronts and then let the AV receiver handle the centre, surrounds and Atmos speakers?!

Front speakers B&W DM603 S3 that are rated at 150W.


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Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
How much power is actually going to the front speakers?
It varies from moment to moment. In quieter sections of a soundtrack / musical piece and at a modest volume level, you might be sending milliwatts of power. At a bit more “fun” volumes, you may need a few watts of power. At party levels…and at big momentary peaks in the program material, hundreds of watts could be called for.

As to whether or not you could benefit from an amp, that depends on your requirements, and setup. Do you feel your system is currently straining / distorting to meet your volume requirements?
 
E

EJC

Enthusiast
It varies from moment to moment. In quieter sections of a soundtrack / musical piece and at a modest volume level, you might be sending milliwatts of power. At a bit more “fun” volumes, you may need a few watts of power. At party levels…and at big momentary peaks in the program material, hundreds of watts could be called for.

As to whether or not you could benefit from an amp, that depends on your requirements, and setup. Do you feel your system is currently straining / distorting to meet your volume requirements?
System is running fine just thought it be better to have an external amp to give it a bit of headroom. Also can get a good deal on the above mentioned Parasound amp.


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Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
System is running fine just thought it be better to have an external amp to give it a bit of headroom. Also can get a good deal on the above mentioned Parasound amp.
More headroom is rarely bad thing, but if the system is running A-OK, don’t get your hopes up on a big return on investment.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Might play around with this calculator first some and measure your listening levels and report back. http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

The amp is rated fairly close to the avr at 125wpc, altho a bit more low impedance capability...unless it's the A23+ which would provide a bit more power (160wpc), but still not even 3dB headroom over your avr (which would take a doubling of power).
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
System is running fine just thought it be better to have an external amp to give it a bit of headroom. Also can get a good deal on the above mentioned Parasound amp.


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More headroom is always good but it will only give you a good feeling, not more power and not better sound quality if your requirements do not exceed whatever headroom you have now without the external amp.

Based on the numbers and available bench test results, the A23 is, as mentioned only slightly more powerful than the AVR-X4500H. If you want something more meaningful in that sense, try one of those Hypex based power amps such as the buckeye amps or VTV amps.

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement! | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

VTV AMPLIFIER Stereo Hypex NC502MP NCore Amplifier 500WX2 | VTV Amplifier

For output power comparison based on bench tests:

You can see that the A23+ will give you about 1.2 dB more (mostly likely not even audible) driving 4 ohms.
The A23 probably offers a little less.

Nice amps, just not worth it if you are after some extra headroom.

1662469271183.png

Stereo mode
(Line up at 70W to determine lines)
Top line = 8-ohm SMPTE IM distortion
Second line = 4-ohm THD+N distortion
Third line = 8-ohm THD+N
Bottom line = 4-ohm SMPTE IM distortion

Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
 
K

kevintomb

Junior Audioholic
I can not find the ratings for your AVR in 5.1 mode, although as you note 125w/Channel in 2 channel mode.

Are you asking the actual power output in 5 channel surround as opposed to the 2 channel rating??

If so 5 and 7 channel ratings are usually a good bit less then the 1 or 2 channel ratings.

My "Guess" would be more in the 75-90 watt range per 5 channels operating, some AVRs would be even less. But half the power of the 2 channel rating is not out of the question, so maybe even 50-70 watts per channel when in 5 channel mode.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I can not find the ratings for your AVR in 5.1 mode, although as you note 125w/Channel in 2 channel mode.

Are you asking the actual power output in 5 channel surround as opposed to the 2 channel rating??

If so 5 and 7 channel ratings are usually a good bit less then the 1 or 2 channel ratings.

My "Guess" would be more in the 75-90 watt range per 5 channels operating, some AVRs would be even less. But half the power of the 2 channel rating is not out of the question, so maybe even 50-70 watts per channel when in 5 channel mode.
Then again such ACD ratings aren't all that meaningful.
 
E

EJC

Enthusiast
I can not find the ratings for your AVR in 5.1 mode, although as you note 125w/Channel in 2 channel mode.

Are you asking the actual power output in 5 channel surround as opposed to the 2 channel rating??

If so 5 and 7 channel ratings are usually a good bit less then the 1 or 2 channel ratings.

My "Guess" would be more in the 75-90 watt range per 5 channels operating, some AVRs would be even less. But half the power of the 2 channel rating is not out of the question, so maybe even 50-70 watts per channel when in 5 channel mode.
Yes looking for power ratings when the 7 channels are being used.


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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
One benefit of an amp is that the headroom comes in two aspects 1) usually more power than an AVR 2) that power is not shared with as many channels as those in the AVR, AND you are not driving those channels from the AVR anymore. There is possibly no real world confirmation on the output of your AVR with all channels driven, and it really doesn't matter because you will almost never have a condition where you are using all channels (unless you run some dumb all channel stereo mode). I would tend to agree with the 75-90 range as realistic. My old Marantz 8300 was rated at 120w and bench tested at 82w ACD, which was pretty good at the time.

What it all comes down to was already mentioned - if you aren't hearing volume limiting or distortion at the loudest levels you listen at, then an amp will not "transform" your sound. IMO, it is a common misconception that an amp makes things sound better. People seem to equate "louder" to "better". The truth is, it sounds exactly the same just louder. If you are actually looking for louder, then maybe an amp is for you though.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Yes looking for power ratings when the 7 channels are being used.


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There are few ways to determine the actual power output at any time, for any channel- measure it. Not with a multimeter, with an oscilloscope.

How loudly do you operate the system? If you don't set the volume above -10 or roughly 70 on the relative scale, you probably won't hear much of a difference between the A23 and the AVR, especially if you use the HP filter ahead of the A23. IMO, and the way I use my A23 is as a stereo amp without a subwoofer, the A23 is a better amp than what's in the AVR but I also have decades of critical listening experience, which means critical listeners listen for different things from what most people do. Not that we're special, but we do listen for specific details.
 
E

EJC

Enthusiast
What it all comes down to was already mentioned - if you aren't hearing volume limiting or distortion at the loudest levels you listen at, then an amp will not "transform" your sound.

Think you hit the nail on the head their. just needed confirmation and assurance I guess. Thanks for the feedback


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