Power hungry speakers

[nm2285]

<font color='#000000'>Hey all-
I'm trying to decide which receiver I should buy to power my NHT SB2s.  I have narrowed it down to two selections- Marantz SR6300 and the Harman Kardon AVR525.  They are ineffecient speakers (86 dB) so I was wondering if the Harman Kardon's 85x2 rating will be powerful enough for them (I know H/K underrates their products but the Marantz offers 100x2).  Let me know your opinions and experiences with this equipment!

Thanks</font>

 

[av_phile]

<font color='#000000'>HKs are high current amps that can drive 4 ohm loads without a problem. &nbsp;I am just not so sure if that ability is sufficient to drive an 86 db speaker. &nbsp;Sure it will sound find, in a small room perhaps. &nbsp;But from what I know low sensitivity speakers really needs the most power it can handle to make it sing. &nbsp;Read the max power spec of your speaker and I would get an amp with such a power rating, respecting impedance.</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>Check this out:</font>

 

[nm2285]

<font color='#000000'>Thanks for your replies.  Unfortunately, zumbo, the 7200 is just out of my price range of $500 max.

To avphile (or anyone who wants to respond): in my price range I can't find anything around the 150W per channel max of my speakers. &nbsp;I've seen some older Denon's at around 125W but I prefer the H/K and the Marantz's sound when matched with my NHTs  These speakers will never be in a large room-always medium or small-so i doubt the full power is necessary. &nbsp;Do you think the H/K and the Marantz would give comparable power or will one out power the other?

Thanks again!</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>What about the Yamaha 1400 for $559 at top of this page.
110x7</font>

 

[annunaki]

<font color='#000000'>If your speakers have an 86 db 1w/1m rating with 85 watts, on paper, you would acheive about 105db anechoically. With a 110 watt receiver you are looking at 106db anechoically. Putting them into a listening room usually increases this. Wow, NOT even an audible difference. (A 3db increase with music is barely noticed by most people. A 10db increase is perceived as twice as loud.) The ONLY ADVANTAGE of the 110 watt receiver would be slightly higher dynamic capability. (which is a good thing) Best bet, is to listen before you buy and get a receiver from a company that has honest power ratings (all channels driven simultaneously 20hz-20khz into 8 ohms with less than .1% THD). Do not worry about 10 watt power differences between receivers, unless of course, they are only rated at 10 watts to begin with

. Remember is you have to DOUBLE OUTPUT power to make a 3db increase ON PAPER. In the real world doubling of power usually equates to about a 2-2.5db increase. (due to speaker inefficencies at turning wattage into motion.)</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>I don't really know of any &quot;all-in-one&quot; receivers in your price range that could adequately push 86db speakers... &nbsp;That kind of in-efficiency could do some real damage to a receiver's power supply. &nbsp;That particluar H/K will do more for you than the marantz, but beyond that, its at your discretion/risk. &nbsp;

best,</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>The H/K is 70x7 or 85x2. The Yamaha is 110x7 or 110x2. Even though you may not hear the difference, The speakers &amp; the receiver will both work better!

The Yamaha has the most power at your price point PERIOD.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Zumbo,
&quot;The H/K is 70x7 or 85x2. The Yamaha is 110x7 or 110x2.&quot;

Unfortunately, H/K almost always produces more current (regardless of the spec sheets) compared to yamaha units. &nbsp;When yamaha says 110x7, that does not mean that it can simultaneously put out 110 watts across 7 channels. &nbsp;You will never see this happen. &nbsp;H/K is usually more &quot;honest&quot; when referring to their power ratings. &nbsp;So a 70 watt rated H/K channel of output will probably be &quot;better&quot; than a 110 watt rated yamaha channel. &nbsp;You must try not to get too caught up in the manufacturers spec(marketing) sheets. &nbsp;Usually they're not worth the paper they are printed on.

best,

</font>

 

[annunaki]

<font color='#000000'>The Yamaha having the most power at the price depends how you look at it.
Yes, having more power is better. However, the last time I checked, most Yamaha receivers fail to meet power specs when all channels are driven simultaneously. Harman Kardon does not suffer from this. In fact they are the opposite and tend to exceed their ratings in surround mode. The last time I watched a movie, I also noticed that all 5-7 channels run at the same time! I am not saying the H/K is a necessarily a better choice here. Yahmaha makes good receivers, they are a well respected company. When it comes to raw power they leave a little to be desired in my opinion.

There are a lot of companies taking advantage of the fact that there is no wattage rating standard for surround sound receivers. Many companies are only putting a power supply in the amplifier capable of driving TWO of the channels to rated power and THD simultaneously. They are simply rating them by the old FTC spec for stereo amplifiers. Some shadier companies are only driving one of the channels in their ratings. Why do they do this? Because the receiver meets the current wattage standard rating criteria, and it costs less increasing profits. At least with a H/K, Rotel or NAD you get true power as they go above and beyond the current rating scale.</font>

 

[aarond]

<font color='#000000'>I don't know about the power supply on the 1400 but on the 2400 its a 500w power supply so yahmaha math is 120x7=500?</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>ross, let me get this straight. You are saying, if the H/K avr-525 and the Yamaha rx-v1400 can be had for the same amount of money, you recommend the H/K?  

</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>aarond, WTF?

</font>

 

[annunaki]

<font color='#000000'>Why not? The job of an amplifier is to simply amplify the signal degrading it as little as possible and give you exactly the amount of power it is rated for if not more. To me, the H/K does this job better. You get the exact amount of power it is rated for if not more. With the Yamaha, in surround mode, you get less than rated power.</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>I responded to the wrong person. OOPS! Oh well, point taken.

</font>

 

[annunaki]

<font color='#000000'>Just because a power supply is a given wattage, does not mean that you get that much out of it. The amplifier is not 100% efficent. The last time I looked most home class A/B amplifiers were in the 45%-55% efficent. So in that case a 500 watt supply would yield 275 watts output at 55% efficency. Or 137.5 watts x 2 or 39.29 watts x 7. Guess what? Based upon the last couple reviews I have seen on Yamaha receivers, this lines up pretty well. I do not know if this equation is totally correct, but it does fit.</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>So, that makes this a BIG FAT LIE!


Digital Home Theater Receiver
RX-V1400
High Performance Home Theater Receiver that Satisfies All the Requirements
for Power and Control of a Sophisticated Home Theater System.

Maximaum Power : 165W x 7 (1,155W Total)

Minimum RMS Output Power (8 ohms, 20-20,000 Hz 0,04% THD, FTC): 110W x 7(Total 770W )

Damping factor (8 ohms, 20-20,000 Hz): 140(speaker A)

Frequency Response: 10-100,000 Hz +0, -3dB

Total Harmonic Distortion (20-20,000 Hz, CD): 0.04%

Signal-to-Noise Ratio (CD, 250 mV): 100 dB

Stanby Power Consumption: Less than 0.5W


I doubt it!</font>

 

[aarond]

<font color='#000000'>zumbo
did you read right above standby power consumption &nbsp;the total power consumption for your 1400 is 500watts</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>Yep. What does that have to do with this?</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>That is the draw from the wall outlet to provide power for the receiver! That is not output!

</font>