Power Conditioning and UPS

[awesomebase]

Hello All! OK, I'm a total newbie here so please be patient with me if this has been discussed already (I tried the search but didn't find the content I wanted... ). I'm putting together a home theater system in my family room. It will be pretty average I guess (i.e. I'm not spending $25K to do it). However, I've been looking into getting "clean" power like what is offered by Monster and Belkin. The problem is that I also want to install a UPS (also offered by these two companies) and was wondering if anybody has done both. The difficulty comes in whether all items should be plugged into the power conditioner and then the conditioner plugs into the UPS or if some components go into each. The reason is that, there are some electronics that have memory/cooling requirements that a UPS would prove valuable in preserving. For example, rear-projection DLP and LCD TVs typically require anywhere from 2 to 5 minutes of cooling after they are powered off. Some systems don't retain their memory when the home looses power (for things such as settings, input memories, etc.). At the same time, I would like to get "noise-free" power. My gut tells me that I could probably get away with plugging virtually everything into the power cleaner and then have that plugged into the UPS, but, I belive the manuals dictate that it isn't advisable to plug the power cleaners into anything but a standard, grounded in-wall circuit. Any ideas?

 

[WmAx]

As you can probably imagine, a UPS for that level power rating will be costly. If you want the best possible device, I recommend a commercial grade server UPS. They will have extremely well filtered power, as well as large power capacity. You can get some really good deals on refurbed units:

https://www.refurbups.com/proddesc.asp?ProductID=52&prodrecommend1=105&prodrecommend2=110&prodrecommend3=40

If you want the absolute 'best' quality power, look for the ones that always provide power from the battery; basicly they always regenerate the power instead of only doing so when the UPS is on emergency backup mode. But these, of course, cost more...

As for connections, just hook the stuff into the UPS directly. Use seperate high quality surge protectors/filters for the phone lines/cable/etc. if needed. Check to be sure the one you get, if any, have fans that may cause audible issues.

-Chris

Hello All! OK, I'm a total newbie here so please be patient with me if this has been discussed already (I tried the search but didn't find the content I wanted... ). I'm putting together a home theater system in my family room. It will be pretty average I guess (i.e. I'm not spending $25K to do it). However, I've been looking into getting "clean" power like what is offered by Monster and Belkin. The problem is that I also want to install a UPS (also offered by these two companies) and was wondering if anybody has done both. The difficulty comes in whether all items should be plugged into the power conditioner and then the conditioner plugs into the UPS or if some components go into each. The reason is that, there are some electronics that have memory/cooling requirements that a UPS would prove valuable in preserving. For example, rear-projection DLP and LCD TVs typically require anywhere from 2 to 5 minutes of cooling after they are powered off. Some systems don't retain their memory when the home looses power (for things such as settings, input memories, etc.). At the same time, I would like to get "noise-free" power. My gut tells me that I could probably get away with plugging virtually everything into the power cleaner and then have that plugged into the UPS, but, I belive the manuals dictate that it isn't advisable to plug the power cleaners into anything but a standard, grounded in-wall circuit. Any ideas?

 

[Privateer]

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=2832

I would not worry about a UPS system but if you want to run a quality AC line conditioner look at the tripp lite LCR2400.

 

[awesomebase]

Thanks!

As you can probably imagine, a UPS for that level power rating will be costly. If you want the best possible device, I recommend a commercial grade server UPS. They will have extremely well filtered power, as well as large power capacity. You can get some really good deals on refurbed units:

https://www.refurbups.com/proddesc.asp?ProductID=52&prodrecommend1=105&prodrecommend2=110&prodrecommend3=40

If you want the absolute 'best' quality power, look for the ones that always provide power from the battery; basicly they always regenerate the power instead of only doing so when the UPS is on emergency backup mode. But these, of course, cost more...

As for connections, just hook the stuff into the UPS directly. Use seperate high quality surge protectors/filters for the phone lines/cable/etc. if needed. Check to be sure the one you get, if any, have fans that may cause audible issues.

-Chris

Thanks Chris, I will look at what is available in the refurb units. I do find it a little weird that companies produce both line conditioners and UPS units, but they either can not be used together or are not properly guarrantied if you do. A combined product would be very nice, that is for sure...

 

[jaxvon]

But wait! There IS a company that makes one! APC is coming out with a combo Power Conditioner/UPS designed specifically for HT applications. It's not gonna be out for awhile, but here's a link the Audioholics check-out of it at CES.

 

[awesomebase]

Pretty good!

But wait! There IS a company that makes one! APC is coming out with a combo Power Conditioner/UPS designed specifically for HT applications. It's not gonna be out for awhile, but here's a link the Audioholics check-out of it at CES.

Wow! That looks really cool! I hope that they can make a unit that is less expensive then that though. $1500 is a lot of dough. Something half that price would be much more reasonable. Hopefully other companies will catch on as well!

 

[Vincent]

Hi awesomebase
I know that 1500.00 sounds like a lot of money, but you are spending 25,000.00 on the system. I can tell you for sure; if your power is not right the you will not get the most out of your system. The system I like the best is Balanced Power technologies.
I would spend the extra and make sure that you get good surge protection in you system over battery back up I would rather reprogram instead of replace. Just a thought.

 

[bmac]

PC and the Surge

I recently purchased a tripp lite unit, and the spec book shows that you cannot use the unit in conjunction with a UPS. This is from tripp lite FAQ's:
My UPS does not have line conditioning. Can I use a line conditioner with my UPS?
Tripp Lite does not recommend it. If used on the input side of the UPS, the switching taps may cause the UPS to run from battery power for a few seconds. If this happens often enough the battery in the UPS will discharge faster than it recharges. If the line conditioner is used on the output side of the UPS, it may recognize the PWM output from the inverter as a surge and become a direct short to the UPS.

 

[HookedOnSound]

I recently purchased a tripp lite unit, and the spec book shows that you cannot use the unit in conjunction with a UPS. This is from tripp lite FAQ's:
My UPS does not have line conditioning. Can I use a line conditioner with my UPS?
Tripp Lite does not recommend it. If used on the input side of the UPS, the switching taps may cause the UPS to run from battery power for a few seconds. If this happens often enough the battery in the UPS will discharge faster than it recharges. If the line conditioner is used on the output side of the UPS, it may recognize the PWM output from the inverter as a surge and become a direct short to the UPS.

I won't cover all the bases but most of UPS' that I have looked at (and purchased) do not recommend attaching a surge suppressor onto a UPS because of circuit designs might interfere with normal UPS systems. What is recommended instead is to plug a power bar (power strip) be plugged into one of the outlets of the UPS if you need more outlets(make sure you don't exceed the total max. current allowed for the unit which is usually 15/20A). Today's UPS' have built-in surge suppression anyways so putting both in-line could cause more harm than good.

Are you sure your UPS does not do any line conditioning? Almost all UPS nowadays receive power from the receptacle and rectify the power signal into a DC form ( which trickle charges/recharges the batteries ) before being inverted back into a newly generated AC signal (hence a "clean signal"). This is why when you lose power, the UPS senses the change (with milliseconds) and switches from AC to battery backup power without power fluctuations because of the design inherently storing power in the capacitors to meet those needs. Your comments confuse me because a well designed Unterruptable Power Supply has the benefits of a Surge Suppressor, Line Conditionner and battery backup. A long time ago, the costs associated to packaging all those features was very expensive so most ppl only bought the features they required the most. This is not the case anymore since costs have come down immensely and convergence is now affordable.

I would seriously recommend you read more about your UPS specs and possibly even call Tripp Lite to verify that your product(s) meet your needs.

Just a suggestion.

 

[calgarianperson]

I was doing some research into that APC equipment (someone tell me if i'm wrong) but it looks like you pay 1500 dollars for the S15 or 1500 for the S10 (you don't use both) and then it almost looks like for every SBAT (UPS) that you add into the array you spend another 1500????

Does anyone else know if it is going to be 1500 per part or 1500 for the whole thing?

There is no prices on this website but there is detailed product info http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=310

 

[HookedOnSound]

I was doing some research into that APC equipment (someone tell me if i'm wrong) but it looks like you pay 1500 dollars for the S15 or 1500 for the S10 (you don't use both) and then it almost looks like for every SBAT (UPS) that you add into the array you spend another 1500????

Does anyone else know if it is going to be 1500 per part or 1500 for the whole thing?

There is no prices on this website but there is detailed product info http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=310

I don't know the pricing but APC usually sells supplemental batteries as an optional component (unless specified).

Buying add'l battery pack will only give you more runtime capacity in case of a power failure and will not increase output power capacity. That is why sizing a proper UPS solution is important, otherwise you might need to buy a new unit in the future. Rule of thumb is to calculate total max Power of all devices you need to connect and add 15%-30% to the sum to allow for future growth. That will let you pick a UPS with enough power to meet your needs.

I cannot stress this enough, make sure you account for all your needs (present and future) before choosing your UPS. Batteries are also a consumable and typically need to be replaced every 2yrs on avg.

Good Luck.