Poor man's 7 chan/driving a second amp and 2 more speakers

[tillerman6]

I'm so glad this group is here! Nirvana for the audiophile in me!

Anyway- Question-
I have a regular Yamaha 5.1 channel system with bluetooth, spotify and You Tube. RX-V365 Working fine more or less.

But the living room is so wide and deep and has a vaulted ceiling. It sort of swallows up the sound unless you crank it.

Which the wife does not care for-

But I was gifted a non-working power amp. Got it working and re-capped the whole thing Yamaha P2250. It's a beast, but it only has attenuators on it's front end.

I have been running it off the line output of the 365, but that level does not change, so as a system, it leaves a lot to be desired.

I need something that can provide the P2250 with a variable source volume that follows the programming levels coming out of the RX-V365. I don't think a mixer would work for me because I'm controlling the system with my remote.

I would look into something like a vintage CA1010 or 2010, but there again- no remote or bluetooth.

So probably some sort of speaker level to "line out "4" level as per the commercial grade equipment, but do any of these have a variable output that varies with the source material and not by manual adjustments???

What have any of you tried? What works best for us couch potatoes?

 

[lovinthehd]

If the avr had a full set of pre-outs, you could use a power amp with it and have volume control in the avr. You usually need to go a bit further up the avr food chain for that feature, tho.

Have you looked at used avrs to save some cash? If you don't need the latest/greatest hdmi or Atmos features you can probably find an avr with the pre-outs for not too much $. You got a good deal on the Yamaha amp, tho, congrats on bringing it back to life.

OTOH if you can't turn the volume up, not sure what the power amp will bring over the avr's current amp.

 

[tillerman6]

I'm all ears if you can think of a good brand and model number that would have the dedicated preamp outputs?

Even used it's looking like at least a thousand dollars US to get into that ballpark, however I did discover the LOC route and that's speaker level to line level voltage divider/converter box for about 25 bucks! If that works it would solve most of my problems. It just hooks to the speaker out lines on any amp and converts that down to a level that will drive my P2250. I know it's not perfect, but for $25 bucks it is something to consider???

Boss audio makes one of those got it off the Reverb website

 

[lovinthehd]

Those converters wouldn't be what I'd want long term, might add more noise/distortion than its worth to get a bit more power. Might work well enough, hard to know but for $25 perhaps worth a try.

Yes an avr with the full set of preouts new these days is probably a list of over $1000 now. They've been squeezing it out of lower models for years now. For Denon the X3xxx and above models have a full set of pre-outs. Forget the dividing line on Marantz especially now that they redid their naming system, but Denon tends to be almost the same unit inside for less for equivalent models. Zkelectronics.com is a good comparison tool for avr feature sets.

 

[nicoleise]

What is your goal, essentially?

If I understand you right, you'd like to run a 7ch surround setup with passive speakers and lack amplification channels, so added a power amp, but due to lack of preouts use line out to connect.

But if the goal "just" is to power seven passive speakers in surround (plus potentially an active sub), then why not just get a second hand AVR?

If you don't need Atmos or the latest and greatest HDMI, there are usually many cheap options. I'm not in the US, but just yesterday there was s Harman Kardon AVR630 posted in my area for just 38$. It has HDMI, 7x100W at 8 Ohms IIRC, and even 8ch direct in and 8ch preout.

I would definitely have bought it, had it not been so "unshipable", if nothing else then just as a temporary power amp (it's got RS232 and RJ45 for a remote control protocol).

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm all ears if you can think of a good brand and model number that would have the dedicated preamp outputs?

Even used it's looking like at least a thousand dollars US to get into that ballpark, however I did discover the LOC route and that's speaker level to line level voltage divider/converter box for about 25 bucks! If that works it would solve most of my problems. It just hooks to the speaker out lines on any amp and converts that down to a level that will drive my P2250. I know it's not perfect, but for $25 bucks it is something to consider???

Boss audio makes one of those got it off the Reverb website

Those resistor network devices are useless. You need to simplify that Frankenstein system and not add to the horror show.

Pick the two speakers you like best and use what you have to power them. That will give you the best results, until you have the money and gear purchased for a multichannel system. Although I have a feeling that room is not a suitable environment for a multichannel system.

 

[tillerman6]

Found a cheap one(S) here- totally passive - I'm using it now. Can't beat it for the price- the P2250 follows my RX-V 365 Yamaha amp perfectly as far as the volume level and I just use the remote for both now.

Who needs a new Rcvr??????????????

Both sets of main speakers are in use!

Amazon.com

I have a better one on order from BOSE audio- splurged $25.00 this time.

 

[lovinthehd]

LOL

 

[Verdinut]

Some people like to have Frankenstein systems! They really are extraordinary!

 

[tillerman6]

Those resistor network devices are useless. You need to simplify that Frankenstein system and not add to the horror show.

Pick the two speakers you like best and use what you have to power them. That will give you the best results, until you have the money and gear purchased for a multichannel system. Although I have a feeling that room is not a suitable environment for a multichannel system.

resistor network devices are Useless? NOPE! got two of these for 8 bucks:

Amazon.com

It's working fine- just needed some bananna jacks and it's plugged into the speaker jacks on the back of my RX-V 365. Now the P2250 follows the RX-V 365 instantly. Loud if you want, turn them both up or down with the remote for the RX-V 365.

P.S. this converter uses two transformers in the circuitry so it's not just resistors although just resistors might be a better choice in the long run.- no frequency roll off/peaks introduced.n I have a slightly better version from BOSS audio coming in the mail in a few days. But when I get rich I will re-visit a new amp/rcvr if I can find one with pre-outs. Yamaha has never made many of that type for some reason. I guess they are not into DIY solutions.

Zero hum, complete silence when the RX-V is muted.

 

[lovinthehd]

Keep in mind with the base avr can't be a 7ch system in any case.

 

[tillerman6]

Some people like to have Frankenstein systems! They really are extraordinary!

You've got me beat for your Frankenstein system! I have been researching RCVRs with preamp outputs and the
AI brought up the DENON AVR-X3700H. So how do you like it? And are you driving another amp with the pre-outs it has?

 

[tillerman6]

What is your goal, essentially?

If I understand you right, you'd like to run a 7ch surround setup with passive speakers and lack amplification channels, so added a power amp, but due to lack of preouts use line out to connect.

But if the goal "just" is to power seven passive speakers in surround (plus potentially an active sub), then why not just get a second hand AVR?

If you don't need Atmos or the latest and greatest HDMI, there are usually many cheap options. I'm not in the US, but just yesterday there was s Harman Kardon AVR630 posted in my area for just 38$. It has HDMI, 7x100W at 8 Ohms IIRC, and even 8ch direct in and 8ch preout.

I would definitely have bought it, had it not been so "unshipable", if nothing else then just as a temporary power amp (it's got RS232 and RJ45 for a remote control protocol).

Installed all the parts of my speaker level to line level converter today for about $10 US- working fine.

See cmments below.

 

[Verdinut]

You've got me beat for your Frankenstein system! I have been researching RCVRs with preamp outputs and the
AI brought up the DENON AVR-X3700H. So how do you like it? And are you driving another amp with the pre-outs it has?

FYI, my HT system is well designed and has nothing in common with what is referred to as a Frankenstein system.

You don't seem to be a good reader. The description of my system clearly states that I'm using external amplification for each of the 7 channels.

 

[tillerman6]

I find it slightly amusing that you are running all that equipment off one receiver and you don't put your system in the" Frankenstein" category? You're using speakers with porting that you designed yourself and that is OK, but you call mine a name because I used a simple component to drive one amplifier that was not being driven with a formal preamp output? Sorry, but that's the pot calling the kettle "black"!

 

[lovinthehd]

I find it slightly amusing that you are running all that equipment off one receiver and you don't put your system in the" Frankenstein" category? You're using speakers with porting that you designed yourself and that is OK, but you call mine a name because I used a simple component to drive one amplifier that was not being driven with a formal preamp output? Sorry, but that's the pot calling the kettle "black"!

Why wouldn't his avr be able to support that gear? You're the one doing the extra two speakers frankenstein style....

 

[Verdinut]

I find it slightly amusing that you are running all that equipment off one receiver and you don't put your system in the" Frankenstein" category? You're using speakers with porting that you designed yourself and that is OK, but you call mine a name because I used a simple component to drive one amplifier that was not being driven with a formal preamp output? Sorry, but that's the pot calling the kettle "black"!

The Denon AVR-X3700H is designed to drive external amps and that is what I'm doing. There is nothing weird with that and this also allows me to bi-amplify my three front channel speakers.

 

[HolmesX]

If you like Yamahas.
Try to find RX-A1030, 2030 or 3030 AVENTAGE series AVR.
They are reasonable priced nowadays.
Solves your problem with 7.1, Bi-Amp and Preout.

 

[tillerman6]

If you like Yamahas.
Try to find RX-A1030, 2030 or 3030 AVENTAGE series AVR.
They are reasonable priced nowadays.
Solves your problem with 7.1, Bi-Amp and Preout.

i decided to go a different route. Ordered a Denon AVR-S970H. Not exactly a pre-out model, but I can use my BOSS adapter if I still need to use the Yamaha P2250 for backup. You can also configure the 7.1 system down into a 5.1 with two backup speakers that could be used for backup in the same room as L2 and R2 if that makes sense.

Actually, I don't think that whole backup system is that great of an idea now after listening to my new "DSL" speakers made out of ceiling tile and 2X 40 watt exciters. The acoustic ceiling tile is 45.5" by 24" left and right and the each have the two drivers which make an 6 ohm load which is not important, but they do fill the large vaulted ceiling living room pretty well. They are hanging from the ceiling now about 2ft from the back wall which seems to spread the sound better.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Hey all!, New to the website and came across this post and have a qu

i decided to go a different route. Ordered a Denon AVR-S970H. Not exactly a pre-out model, but I can use my BOSS adapter if I still need to use the Yamaha P2250 for backup. You can also configure the 7.1 system down into a 5.1 with two backup speakers that could be used for backup in the same room as L2 and R2 if that makes sense.

Actually, I don't think that whole backup system is that great of an idea now after listening to my new "DSL" speakers made out of ceiling tile and 2X 40 watt exciters. The acoustic ceiling tile is 45.5" by 24" left and right and the each have the two drivers which make an 6 ohm load which is not important, but they do fill the large vaulted ceiling living room pretty well. They are hanging from the ceiling now about 2ft from the back wall which seems to spread the sound better