Polk

[shokhead]

Which bookshelf series are the best for main speakers and why? Atrium,R,Ri,Monitor or Lsi.

 

[anamorphic96]

LSi all the way.

To my ears the LSi are there best speakers in a LONG while. Mainly due to the Vifa tweeter being used. Very smooth and refined.

However the LSi speakers are not efficient and like alot of juice to sound there best. Receivers dont cut it with this line IMO.

The rest of the the stuff sounds very bright and unrefined. Some differ but to my ears they just dont cut it. They look nice and are built well but the sound leaves something to be desired.

 

[shokhead]

Right. I was kinda leaning towards the Lsi7 to go with my 2805. Maybe i'll see what Axiom has that compares to the 7.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

I have the RTI6's as rear speakers. Don't think there is anything better for that price. Axiom is a step below Polk. A receiver will be plenty of juice for these. They aren't like the RTI 12's or RTI10's that require lots of juice and the Lsi series even moreso. You said you wanted bookshelves. Get these.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I have a set of the RTi4's, and they sound beautiful with music. Very punchy bass, and smooth highs. Not sure where the "bright and unrefined" comment came from. Sounds like there may be a room acoustics or speaker placement issue.

 

[anamorphic96]

I have a set of the RTi4's, and they sound beautiful with music. Very punchy bass, and smooth highs. Not sure where the "bright and unrefined" comment came from. Sounds like there may be a room acoustics or speaker placement issue.

I figured my bright and unrefined statement might ruffle some feathers but its what my ears are hearing.

Both sessions with the Polks where roughly two hours a piece done after hours at the dealer I go to. The listening room is well treated and quiet.

We used RTi 4's , 6's and 10's and put them against the LSi 7, 9's and 15's. Equipment on both occasions was Musical Fidelity and Arcam.
The LSi's simply walked all over the RTi's. Especially in the mids and highs. The LSi series is very neutral and even with no glare or that bright in your face nature of the RTi's. But they should considering there price point.

The RTi series to my ears are pushing the mids and highs way to much. Even Paradigm which is known to be a brighter speaker doesent push the mids and highs nearly as much. However of the RTi series I did find the 4's reasonable but nothing great.

Just my 2 cents. Dont mean to offend anyone just thought I should clarify my statement and explain why my opinion is such.

 

[tdeluce]

I have LSi15's towers for front left and front right;
LSiC for center channel; LC265i in-ceilings for
three rear surrounds ( same tweeters as LSi series
and slightly larger drivers made of same material
as LSi series )/.

I drive the above with Denon AVR-4802 very
easily. As long as you have a high current receiver
the speakers sound awesome. I believe this would
be Denon AVR-48xx or AVR-58xx or equivalent
receiver. The Denon AVR-3805 has a hard time
driving any speaker below 8 ohms.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Wasn't sure what price range the poster was looking in.

Yes, the Lsi's are supposed to walk all over the RTI series. But they cost way more. In fact, in Canada we have to special order them right from Polk and they work out to be almost twice as much. Now the question is, are the twice as good? I would doubt that very much.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

The Denon AVR-3805 has a hard time
driving any speaker below 8 ohms.

I don't know if I agree with that statement. There's a lot of speakers rated at 6 ohms with high spl ratings that do well with lesser receivers. I've heard the 3805 drive a set of Magnapans without a hitch. The specs on both units are somewhat comparable. I'm not sure why Denon chose to rate the 3805 at 1 kHz into 6 ohms, but if they used the entire bandwidth (20-20kHz) in their rating, I'm confident it would be at least 140 watts per channel based on it's rating into 8 ohms at full bandwidth.

The LSi's are some impressive speakers, but as said before, you definitely pay for the smoother midrange and highs. The same could be said when comparing a set of Magnapans to the LSi's, but then you are talking another sizable price difference.

Denon AVR3805
7 Channels equal power amplifier section • 120 watts per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, <.05%THD) • 160 watts per channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, <.7%THD)
Dynamic power 210x2 at 4 ohms

Denon AVR4802
7 Channels equal power amplifier section • 125 watts per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, <.05%THD) • 150 watts per channel (6 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, <.05%THD)
Dynamic power 270x2 at 4 ohms

 

[Polkfan]

I've read that the 3805 will drive the LSi 9 with no problem, so I'd think the LSi 7 shoud be driveable as well. As for Polks, the RT series were (are) very good speakers too. I've had my RT7 books for nearly eight years and they sound great with the little Onk SR600. The Denon 3805 would be an awesome match with them (8 ohms). They blend very well with the Polk PSW650. I'm off to listen to them now. You know, I would be very hard pressed to part with them even now for considerably more expensive bookshelf speakers (not even the LSi 9).

Cheers

 

[tdeluce]

I base this on experiment ( using a 3805 for
a week ) and the denon supplied spec sheet.

The entire LSi series are 4 ohm speakers.

If the you check out the denon spec sheet on the
3805 you will see they spec THD into a 6 ohm load more than magnitude higher than an 8 ohm load through
a much smaller frequency band. With the 4802
there is no increase in THD over the entire frequency
band of audible hearing with the 8 ohm or 6 ohm loads.

The difference in sound output I noticed comparing the
3805 to the 4802 is that the 4802 sounds "effortless"
with a "fuller" sound.

That doesn't mean you won't like the sound of the 3805
driving the LSi series...

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I base this on experiment (using a 3805 for
a week) and the denon supplied spec sheet.

No argument there. There's no substitution for bringing a unit home.

The entire LSi series are 4 ohm speakers.

That's what I hated about them. You really need a beefy external amp to get them going (or one heck of a receiver). Heck, you need an external amp to get the RTi towers going (2.0 and large), otherwise they do sound lifeless. One way around that is to set all speakers to "small" and use a separate sub to avoid the taxing demands on the receivers' amp. The top of the line LSi towers have built in subs, which helps with better mids and highs. Without bass management, even the near top of the line receivers have trouble pushing 4, 6, and low spl 8 ohm speakers. It's a shame, but the industry has created somewhat of a hole.

If the you check out the denon spec sheet on the
3805 you will see they spec THD into a 6 ohm load more than magnitude higher than an 8 ohm load through
a much smaller frequency band. With the 4802
there is no increase in THD over the entire frequency
band of audible hearing with the 8 ohm or 6 ohm loads.

As was stated earlier, "I'm not sure why Denon chose to rate the 3805 at 1 kHz into 6 ohms, but if they used the entire bandwidth (20-20kHz) in their rating, I'm confident it would be at least 140 watts per channel based on it's rating into 8 ohms at full bandwidth."

The difference in sound output I noticed comparing the
3805 to the 4802 is that the 4802 sounds "effortless"
with a "fuller" sound.

That's where that dynamic power comes into play. 210x2 versus 270x2. It's fuller because of the larger power supply and transformer. Check out the dynamic power on the 5803 and 5805.

 

[tdeluce]

As was stated earlier, "I'm not sure why Denon chose to rate the 3805 at 1 kHz into 6 ohms, but if they used the entire bandwidth (20-20kHz) in their rating, I'm confident it would be at least 140 watts per channel based on it's rating into 8 ohms at full bandwidth."

The reason they did use the entire bandwidth, in my
opinion, is because THD would go through the roof.
Notice how it moves from <.05 to <.7 which is
over a magnitude higher at 6 ohms than into 8 ohms.
What do you think it would be into a 4 ohm load?

The AVR-4802's THD doesn't change from 8 ohms to 6 ohms...

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

The reason they did use the entire bandwidth, in my
opinion, is because THD would go through the roof.
Notice how it moves from <.05 to <.7 which is
over a magnitude higher at 6 ohms than into 8 ohms.
What do you think it would be into a 4 ohm load?

The AVR-4802's THD doesn't change from 8 ohms to 6 ohms...

My assumption for the 3805 was 140 watts (compared to 150 for the 4802) at .05% thd and 20-20kHz into 6 ohms, seeing how they rated it at 160 watts per channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, <.7%THD). I agree thd would increase at full bandwidth (at 160 watts), but I also feel they do this to sell units. The 4802 is only rated at 150 watts per channel (6 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, <.05%THD). They could have easily said 170 watts per channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, <.7THD). Most other countries rate their amps at 6 ohms and 1kHz, so this may be their reasoning to rate the unit at 1kHz.

The 4802 only tips the scales at 45lbs, while the 3805 is near 40. No where near the 65-95lb giant flagships. I just don't think there is as much difference as you point to.

 

[MacManNM]

As was stated earlier, "I'm not sure why Denon chose to rate the 3805 at 1 kHz into 6 ohms, but if they used the entire bandwidth (20-20kHz) in their rating, I'm confident it would be at least 140 watts per channel based on it's rating into 8 ohms at full bandwidth."

The reason they did use the entire bandwidth, in my
opinion, is because THD would go through the roof.
Notice how it moves from <.05 to <.7 which is
over a magnitude higher at 6 ohms than into 8 ohms.
What do you think it would be into a 4 ohm load?

The AVR-4802's THD doesn't change from 8 ohms to 6 ohms...

What your talking about here is transient peaks. The diff between 8 ohm and 4 ohm speakers is in reality, 6db. Even if the 3805 was rated @ 100 w/ch into 8 ohms, and the 4802 is @ 150w/ch it doesn't mean didley, it's still less than 3db. THD of 0.7 is barely audible, if anything it will help out the sound (for as bad as stuff is recorded today).


By the way it's "an order of magnitude".

 

[tdeluce]

it is .7 THD into 6 ohms at 1Khz - I suspect it is much
higher than this over the entire frequency range or
Denon would have quoted the spec like they do the
48xx and 58xx. If it is breaking down this much into
a 6 ohm load I suspect it will be far worse at 4 ohms.

Anyway specs are specs - the 3805 sounded good
but a bit strained at higher volumes. The 4802
drives the LSi series much better - I would describe
it as effortless...

 

[MacManNM]

it is .7 THD into 6 ohms at 1Khz - I suspect it is much
higher than this over the entire frequency range or
Denon would have quoted the spec like they do the
48xx and 58xx. If it is breaking down this much into
a 6 ohm load I suspect it will be far worse at 4 ohms.

Anyway specs are specs - the 3805 sounded good
but a bit strained at higher volumes. The 4802
drives the LSi series much better - I would describe
it as effortless...

4 ohms with 92db speakers are the same as 8 ohms with 89db speakers.

 

[tdeluce]

4 ohms with 92db speakers are the same as 8 ohms with 89db speakers.

False. You cannot make such a generalization.

Perhaps your statement is true if the AMPs can provide enough
current with the same THD.

 

[MacManNM]

False. You cannot make such a generalization.

Perhaps your statement is true if the AMPs can provide enough
current with the same THD.

Are you totaly clueless? Driving the speakers within the limits of the amp, they both will sound the same as any amp driving them.

 

[tdeluce]

Are you totaly clueless? Driving the speakers within the limits of the amp, they both will sound the same as any amp driving them.

If want to continue a rational dialogue I am game - if you want get
personal and call people clueless you will have to find someone else
to communicate with.

Obviously the AVR-3805 and AVR-4802 sound differently driving
4 ohms. The spec sheets of each describe characteristics driving
into 6 ohms and these characteristics are substantially different.