POLK MONITOR XT12

[akanarya]

Hi,
After my old sub dead, i am looking for a budget subwoofer.
I restrict the search to following ones according to their costs in my country.
I listed some specs and costs (cost is not usd, a relative value)

POLK MONITOR XT12

Monitor XT12 Subwoofer - 100W 12" Woofer | Polk Audio™

The Monitor XT12 is a 100W powered subwoofer that features a 12" woofer and provides Polk’s loud, low, effortless bass for movies, music & more.

www.polkaudio.com

12", 50w rms, class A/B
cost is about 720

POLK PSW 125

PSW 125 12-Inch 300W Subwoofer Subwoofers | Polk Audio

Bring amazing audio into your home with the PSW 125 subwoofer. Expect Great Sound™ with Polk. Click to learn more.

www.polkaudio.com

12", 150w rms, class A/B
cost is about 760

ELAC Debut S10.2
10", 100w rms, BASH amp

S10.2

Add the Debut S10.2 powered subwoofer to your main speakers and hear bass you never knew existed. With 200 Watts* built-in, there’s plenty of power to deliver rock-solid low frequencies that make your favorite music and soundtracks more realistic than ever, with the weight and presence of a live per

www.elac.com

cost is about 410

POLK PSW 10

PSW 10 Subwoofer - 10" 100W Powered Woofer | Polk Audio™

The PSW 10 subwoofer features a 10" woofer in a vented front panel port enclosure to add deep bass excitement to your music or movie sound system.

www.polkaudio.com

10", 50w rms
cost is about 430

psw125 is older model, has a fair amazon rating.
xt12 is very new model and i couldnt find a review about it.

my room is amout 20 m2, i have 5.1.2 atmos system driven by denon 2500h.
My listening habit is 75% HT & TV, 25% rock type music.

my old sub was klipsch sw-450 (10", 200w rms 450w peak)
it was was very powerfull for me, because i dont and cant use it at high volumes.
i had a very bad luck for klipsch elecronics so i decided to avoid this brand from my list,
even if i know current models have good reputations.

I know, you will suggest directly HSU and SVS but HSU is not avaliable here and SVS is a long term target because of my budget.

I find xt12 is more close to me, because of that i gave the topic title as xt 12.
Bu since it is very new and there is no review, i'd like to see some comments if you had a chance to experience it.

my brain also says that get the elac or psw10 for now, until find an opportunity for SB-1000.
I know these are entry level subs but I dont want to force my budget.

I appreciate for your suggestions.

 

[Eppie]

I looked up the specs and the XT12 is only 50W continuous and 100W max and they do not even list the frequency response. That sub seems to be underpowered for the price. The PSW 125 has better specs at 150W continuous and 300W and rated at 30Hz to 225Hz. At a cost of 40 more (what currency are your prices in?) the 125 is better value.

The PSW 10 is again only 50W continuous and only rated from 40Hz to 160Hz. There are speakers that can go that low, so not a very good sub. Ideally you want a sub that goes down to 20Hz. The SVS SB-1000 Pro will go down to 20Hz and is a true subwoofer.

The Elac has a 100W amp and is rated from 35Hz to 150Hz so not as good as the Polk PSW 125 but better than the PSW 10 or XT12. You did not mention how much the SB-1000 is in your area. If this new sub is just temporary, maybe get the Elac as the better cheap option and save up for the SVS. If you plan to use this sub for a while because it will take a long time to upgrade, the PSW 125 looks the best on paper.

I used to have a cheap 10" Klipsch and yes, they are not very good. Learned my lesson and use an SVS SB-2000 Pro now. For your size room the SB-1000 should do nicely. If you have the space, the PB-1000 will perform a little better, but given the room size and volume levels the SB-1000 should do fine.

 

[akanarya]

Thanks Eppie, I am from Turkey.
Elac is 4100 Turkish Lira, PSW125 is 7500 TL and SB-1000 Pro is about 12500 TL.
Prices here are very different from US. Currency is very fluctiating these days and cost of SB-1000 makes approx. 925 usd, which is very high for now.

ELAC values are more promising than PSW10'. But what confusing is PSW10 has very good reputation at all sites I visited; best seller at most sites, highly suggested as a budget sub by prof. reviewing sites also.

In fact I am also looking at second hand sites here , but i am a bit afraid, it is hard find a subwoofer in mint condition. For example there is a listed Definitive Technology ProSub 1000 for 3600 TL. I liked the specs, it has passive radiator, 10" woofer with 300w rms power. It looks like it is in good state, but who one know it hasnt been tired too much.

 

[Eppie]

I am surprised that reviewers would rate the PSW10 well given that it only goes down to 40Hz. Some would say that it is not even a true subwoofer. My bookshelf speakers are rated down to 54Hz (+/- 2dB) with low frequency extension down to 36Hz. That subwoofer would add very little if anything at all to my speakers. Paired with very small bookshelves that only go down to say 70 or 80Hz, you would notice an improvement, but if you have reasonably good main speakers the PSW10 doesn't seem to offer much for the money in my view.

Have you found any recent reviews from independent testing sites? I found some old reviews from 2004 which were mostly subjective and subwoofers have improved a lot since then. I think that it is popular simply because it is small and inexpensive. The weak amplifier and poor bass extension do not support the reviewers' comments. I can not recommend it.

Yes, used subs are a risk. That DT sub is still sold but it could also be up to 10 years old (it has been available for years). It is not much better than the PSW10 though. The specs that Definitive Technology list are over inflated. I did some research and that sub only goes down 38Hz, maybe 34Hz with room gain.

I found an Audioholic preview article on the Polk XT line of speakers:
https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/polk-monitor-xt
The XT12 is rated down to 24Hz which puts it in line with the PSW 125. If your preference is the XT12 I would recommend that over the PSW10. I just wish it had a more powerful amplifier. Hopefully you can afford the SVS later on. It is much better than any of these but we all have budgets that we must work within.

 

[akanarya]

well, i have old JBL towers with 8" woofers in them rated at 40 hz.
One of the improvements on the bass reponse of active subs is power, we cannot take that much power from passive spakers. Therefore any active sub should make at least a bit improvement on bass response even if it is rated same with fronts, technically.
I am listening my fronts without sub,since it is dead, they have good bass output but they are not strong enough.

But problem is that datasheet values may not reflect the real world situation and feeling.
my klipsch was 28hz, but im not sure it could do it and it was a bit boomy.
it can state 20hz, but with what power.

of course everyone's expectation my differ, someone may prefer smoother, faster responses someone may only want shake the house. so user experiences may vary according to expectations.

infact i couldnt resolve how much power required.
For example, my 200w rms/450w peak sub was too powerfull for me.
I guess that 50w is weak too.
On the other hand, these subs are designed by qualified engineers, therefore they should know better.

i am also wondering the relation between power and woofer size.
old sub has 10" woofer with 200w, say xt12 is 12" with 50w.

 

[Eppie]

A 10" sub will have difficulty competing with a 12" simply due to having less surface area. Most manufacturers will compensate for that using digital signal processing (DSP) to get more bass extension. So the Elac may be using more equalization at the lower frequencies. Depends on how the cabinet is tuned to the speaker as well.

Speaker impedance varies with frequency and typically drops at low frequencies, so power requirements are greatest at the low end. That 200W may sound like a lot but is needed for the occasional big transient. The SB1000Pro has even more power at 325W and that is their lowest power sub. Amps do not use very much power at low volumes but it goes up logarithmically, needing double the power for every 3dB increase.

I would consider what your long term goals are. If you are set on getting the SB1000Pro or similar later, spending less now means you can save up for the SVS more quickly. If you think you will be using this sub for a long time then it could be worth getting the best one you can afford. If you plan to upgrade later, can the old sub be sold second hand and for how much? I used a 55W sub for a while and when I upgraded to the SVS I was very pleasantly surprised by the overall improvement. I could never go back to a inexpensive low powered sub again.

 

[akanarya]

Thanks for your valuable suggestions.
I also wonder 10" vs 12" woofer diameter.
Actually you mentioned technically a little in your first paragraph but does it make big difference in feeling?

 

[lovinthehd]

The amp power isn't all that indicative of much, as it depends on an unknown factor--the subs' overall sensitivity, as to how meaningful it is. The sub will have limits extra power can't overcome, too. Hopefully they were reasonably matched up by the designer/brand in the first place. A higher power amp may have an advantage, but not necessarily if the sub can't use/doesn't need the power. A larger diameter cone can push more air, and as they say, there's no replacement for displacement, but there are other factors in play too.

As far as boomy type subs, the Polk are somewhat known for this....but could be placement or other integration issues.

 

[Eppie]

Your room is similar in size to mine and is considered small-to-median for subwoofer selection. If you can't play at high volumes I don't think you will notice a significant difference between a 10" and 12" if they are designed well, as lovinthehd just mentioned. Finding the proper placement within the room can have a bigger impact. When you get into larger rooms and high volumes the design considerations become more important.

These are just general observations. A well designed 10" sub can outperform a poorly design 12", so it is best to look at actual measurement graphs for comparison. Unfortunately measurements can be hard to find when looking at the many inexpensive models out there. Erin's Audio Corner is a good source for reviews and he has videos on budget 10" and 12" subwoofers. Despite my misgivings on the Polk PSW10, Erin's tests show that it had the highest output of the subs tested, so highest output per dollar. The Elac, however, came close to the same output but had a flatter response curve.

Another thing to consider is whether you have space for two subwoofers. Having two will smooth the bass response within the room and there are plenty of articles and videos on the benefits of having multiple subwoofers. For a single sub the SVS will be the better performer, but you could get two of the Elacs for the same money and get more even bass response throughout the room. With the SVS, you get lower extension (usable output down to 20Hz) and more output, so consider what type of material you like to listen to. For orchestral, pipe organ and some electronic music and movie sound tracks there can be a fair bit of content at or below 20Hz and the inexpensive subs will not go that deep (or have much reduced output at the lowest frequencies). If you don't listen to a lot of material with very deep bass, a pair of less expensive subs may suite your needs better. Below are Erin's two videos:

 

[akanarya]

Thank you very much for valuable information and help.
I wasnt aware of Erin's test.
Erin used elac sub 1010 for his test.
It is not available here but there is debut s10.2 which is in my interest.
On paper s10.2 is better in terms of lowest freq. response and power rating.
Besides I liked elac's linearity more then polk's higher output.
Therefore i will follow both psw40 and debut s10.2.

My old sub was down firing.
Here, s10.2 is also down firing but psw10 is front firing.
They say firing direction is not so important because of lower freq has very wide bandwith and because of this
it is accepted as undirectional, our listening location is very close to the source when compared to bandwidth.
But i'd like to experince the feeling of front firing too.
Both of them have front side ports, this is usefull for my setup.

 

[Eppie]

Down firing seems to be common in smaller subs but less so when you start to get into 12" and 15" and over. That may have to do more with space considerations as designers have to consider amp and port placement. If you have pets or small children, down firing can offer some protection but it also reduces the cost as you don't need a grill or pin sockets in the cabinet. People are more price sensitive at the lower end so manufacturers will save money where possible to compete in that market segment.