Pleasee suggest speaker candidates (music only)

KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I have vintage speakers (avg 30 years old) which I like, but would like to see how the audio world has come up with since then!
Please suggest speaker systems which you think might fit my budget, taste, and needs as described below.

1) My speaker budget is up to $1100. Less $ would be nice, however, $1100 is about the most I would spend if the sound was worth it.
2) This could be two to 7.1 channels, but purely for music, not HT. How many channels do you think constitutes the best sound for the buck?
3) Excuse my word choice - it is hard to describe sound character. I prefer a natural speaker. I suspect this may be what is called a European sound, I would describe it as a system where a vocalist has good presence, but it is not obvious that they are using a microphone. Back when I was "in the know" on speakers, Infinity was becoming a well respected speaker. I, personally, did not like Infinity speakers because they were too "bright" and overbearing to my ear. High-hats and "S" sounds were too bright. In an A-B comparison, they would sound better at first, but if I listened to them for very long, the treble would wear on me. Today's Infinity is probably a completely different animal - I don't know. FWIW, AR-3a's and Epicure EPI-100's which are what I selected for my "listening room" and I have been happy with them.
4) I do not really listen to LOUD music. My maximum listening level has the sound pressure level peaking at 90dB. Perhaps more importantly, I will probably spend 90% of my time listening at 65-70dB. I have heard speakers that filled a room with magnificently full and balanced sound at high volume, but produced a comparatively thin sound at lower volume.
5) The ability to audition a system in the home and return it with little or no cost is a plus.
Thank you!:)
 
J

just listening

Audioholic
before any suggestions are made, we need to know room size, shape and decor, and the equipment the speakers will be powered and sourced by. Another factor is the type of music.
 
ZeosPantera

ZeosPantera

Junior Audioholic
knowing absolutely nothing about your listening room is a factor in our suggestions but from your vintage background I can pretty much tell what kind of music you listen to. You are going to most likely want a soft dome tweeter. I set up a pair of speakers for music listening for a client that used soft dome and he noted that the slide of guitar strings wasn't as prevalent. I brought over a pair of piezo 2-way Cerwin-Vega bookshelf speakers and there was a definite difference in the way sharp high's were dealt out. I personally like a speaker that can muster up the those painful notes but for softer music I would recommend a pair of Level 2 HTD 2-way centers

http://www.htd.com/cabinet-speakers/center-channel-speakers/Level-TWO-Center-Channel-Speaker

They are cheap compared to most speakers you will be shown here but they can produce! They got as low as 40-45Hz when I tested them. The level-3's have a ribbon tweeter which will probably be too shrill for what you want to listen to.

Just for reference the speakers that the client had that lacked the high's were a set of 3-way centers by the same company http://www.htd.com/cabinet-speakers/flat-panel-speakers/flat-panel-speaker I do not recommend those until HTD fixes an issue with the 4" drivers having a 40% chance of having a rattle. Had to send 2/5 speakers back to texas. The replacement/working speakers sound excellent and do a superb job in reproducing accurate vocals. But for a pure musical setup the bigger 2-way centers are my recommendation.

Note: This post may become completely irrelevant dependent on KEW's next reply hopefully with more spec's.
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
This thread is clearly going in the wrong direction.1st off I have never heard of these HTR speakers you brought up,so right off the bat I am going to say bad idea.No to say I have heard every speaker out there but I will not recommend a speaker I have never heard of. I am wondering if you have a sub or you want a full range cabinet. If you are not opposed to buying used off of www.audiogon.com then you can get some AMAZING deals.What are you powering these with and do you have and AVR,separates or what??? Also how big is your listening space? These would be questions that anyone here will ask to help recommend a speaker for you. Last where do you live? Start there and answer those and we will be much better suited to help....

The OP asked for speakers for music.The HTR speakers are NOT for music but HT.......and the reviews are sketchy at best.Based on the weight and specs of these speakers I can only say (you get what you pay for and in some cases less)
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1252863277&/Monitor-Audio-Silver-RS8
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1252853366&/Paradigm-studio-60-v3
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1252859495&/Soliloquy-5.3-floorstanding
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1252796095&/B-W-Matrix-804s Personally I would buy those B&W Matrix 804's I owned a pair and they were some of my favorites to date I also drove the 804's with a Denon 3802 and it was steller....I just sold the B&W's cause I moved to Cali but for that price I would jump on it and don't look back. Every kind of music I played on them sounded great with no fatigue to my ears ever.I am a studio and live engineer and I would recommend the 804's to anyone.......
 
Last edited:
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
before any suggestions are made, we need to know room size, shape and decor, and the equipment the speakers will be powered and sourced by. Another factor is the type of music.
I completely agree with the quote above. Audio is a system, with the room and the equipment working in more or less equal parts to create the final sound. Many speaker manufacturers "voice" their speakers to work particularly well in certain kinds of rooms. So it is very important to know as much about your room as possible so that we can recommend speakers that will work WITH your room to create the experience that you want!

But just to get things started:

Others, I'm sure, will disagree with me on this, but I prefer to ALWAYS use a subwoofer (preferably 2 or 4 subwoofers) and adhere to a 4th order cross-over at 80Hz. Many many people prefer to use "full-range" tower speakers when the use is for music only, but in my experience, room interaction with the bass rarely makes the Front L/R positions the best place for bass response. This is just me, but I MUCH prefer to always allow a subwoofer (or again, preferably 2 or 4 subwoofers) to handle the bass. That way, you can optimally place the subwoofer within your room.

The cross-over from the subwoofer to the speakers is a vital consideration. Many many people opt for Front speakers that have quite low bass extension and then also cross those speakers over to a subwoofer. The problem is that most receivers or pre/pros use a 4th order slope to roll off the high end of the subwoofer, but they use a 2nd order slope to roll off the low end of the speakers. If the speakers are naturally capable of playing quite low, that gentle 2nd order slope is going to result in too much bass coming from the speakers. Some people like this "warm" sound that results and feel that it makes everything sound "bigger". But I find that it often damages the clarity of the mid-bass and upper portion of the true bass and can sometimes (depending on the room) make things sound a bit "woolly".

So me, I am a fan of using speakers that naturally start to roll-off the bottom end right around 80Hz. These are often bookshelf sized speakers, but when mated with 1, 2 or 4 very capable subwoofers, the combined sound can be cleaner, more dynamic, better focused and far more likely to work well within your room.

I know the kind of sound that you are describing. It is a sound characteristic of speakers that have a gentle roll-off in the highest frequencies, but more importantly, have a gentle roll-off as you move further and further off axis. You are likely to appreciate speakers with a slightly enhanced mid-range - especially since you enjoy listening mostly at lower volume levels.

Fatigue does not actually come from there being too much high frequency energy. Many people believe that a "bright" speaker will always be fatiguing, but this is not true. A "bright" speaker simply has an enhanced treble. What is fatiguing is distortion and distortion is especially fatiguing if it happens to be in the high frequencies.

With your budget, you are VERY likely to come across speakers that use tweeters that distort. It's just a compromise that has to be made at lower price points. Less expensive tweeters generally produce more distortion and that's just the way things go :p

Anyways, add it all up and my recommendation would likely go towards a 2.1 system. Some people will think I'm crazy for not recommending some $1000/pair towers, but as I said, I always favor using a subwoofer and in your situation, I would opt for a nice $500-ish subwoofer set atop a $50 Auralex SubDude mated with some nice $500-ish/pair bookshelf speakers and I'm likely thinking Ascend Acoustics or RBH would be a top choice for your speakers with a nice HSU subwoofer - the detail and clarity over the entire frequency range would knock your socks off from whence you're coming :)
 
Last edited:
S

swspiers

Audioholic
I have to chime in and second Just Listening. Without details, it's impossible to make rational recommendations.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
before any suggestions are made, we need to know room size, shape and decor, and the equipment the speakers will be powered and sourced by. Another factor is the type of music.
Thanks for all of the responses.
Room size/shape - a simple rectangle with vaulted ceiling (chamfered along the long walls) - 18L X 13W X 10H.

Decor - It is our bedroom. Acoustically, I would call it "medium to live". Not quite austere, but upholstered furniture consists of the bed and my Ikea Poang http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S39825208 listening chair with footrest (check it out if you want an inexpensive, durable, and comfortable chair - it is the only chair that my 5-7 wife and 6-2 self swear by), window drapes are always open and the wood slat blinds are down (but turned open in the day, closed at night). We also have long dresser, armoire, desk, and bookcase - all hardwood with an ample layer of clutter on top. Walls are drywall and ceiling has standard "kitty litter" texture.

Power source - I plan to purchase a receiver to match the type of speaker system (I assume the speakers are the most important factor). If this is best spec'ed with the speakers, figure $350 max for amp.

Sound source - CD player, FM, and old Nakamichi tape deck. Most likely, I will eventually tie in my computer for the convenience of playing iTunes/MP3/Internet Radio.

Music - I listen to a really wide array. As a general rule, I DON'T care for opera or rap, but my favorites are among rock, jazz, and classical. I can say that much of my very favorite music seems to have active musical bass lines (Cure, Who, pre-pop Genesis, Yes, Jaco Pastorius). Female vocals also are on my favorites list (Edie Brickell, Sheryl Crow, Joni Mitchell, Alanis Morissette).
For classical, a couple of favorites that come immediately to mind are Brandenberg Concertos (English Concert/Trevor Pinnock version with recorder instead of flute), and Anton Bruckner's Symphony No. 2 in C minor.

Let me know if I missed or need to clarify anything!
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Zeos is probably right about the soft dome tweeter. Many of my friends thought the piezo and ribbon tweeters were great but I never could feel it. I hope this means my description of the sound I like is useful.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I am wondering if you have a sub or you want a full range cabinet. If you are not opposed to buying used off of www.audiogon.com then you can get some AMAZING deals.
I do like the idea of a sub with less (visually/physically) obtrusive main speakers, but whatever offers the best sound for the least $.
I'm not willing to buy speakers I haven't heard. But if I have heard the speaker, buying through Audiogon is a good option.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I know the kind of sound that you are describing. It is a sound characteristic of speakers that have a gentle roll-off in the highest frequencies, but more importantly, have a gentle roll-off as you move further and further off axis. You are likely to appreciate speakers with a slightly enhanced mid-range - especially since you enjoy listening mostly at lower volume levels.
I think you have it nailed!
I lost a pair of KLH 6's (not the CSW remake) to a fire. For the price, they were phenomenal to my ear. Lab tests showed an emphasis in the mid-range on these.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Fatigue does not actually come from there being too much high frequency energy. Many people believe that a "bright" speaker will always be fatiguing, but this is not true. A "bright" speaker simply has an enhanced treble. What is fatiguing is distortion and distortion is especially fatiguing if it happens to be in the high frequencies.

With your budget, you are VERY likely to come across speakers that use tweeters that distort. It's just a compromise that has to be made at lower price points. Less expensive tweeters generally produce more distortion and that's just the way things go :p

Anyways, add it all up and my recommendation would likely go towards a 2.1 system. Some people will think I'm crazy for not recommending some $1000/pair towers, but as I said, I always favor using a subwoofer and in your situation, I would opt for a nice $500-ish subwoofer set atop a $50 Auralex SubDude mated with some nice $500-ish/pair bookshelf speakers and I'm likely thinking Ascend Acoustics or RBH would be a top choice for your speakers with a nice HSU subwoofer - the detail and clarity over the entire frequency range would knock your socks off from whence you're coming :)
Interesting, the high frequency issue always sounded like simple distortion to me. I always figured it had something to do with my ears being over-saturated, but upon reflection, my friends who liked these speakers had probably lost some high frequency hearing. From time to time I would be annoyed by high pitched whines from servo motors or TV's that they could not hear.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Picking out distortion vs. the actual recorded sound can be really, really difficult! Basically, the only way we can hear it is if we hear the recording without distortion and then compare it to a speaker this IS distorting. All of a sudden, you'll realize that certain things you were hearing with the distorting speaker weren't actually part of the recording!

We're (humans) generally quite good at picking out distortion in the mid-range. In the high frequencies, we tend to just figure that any shrillness or harshness just goes hand-in-hand with higher and higher frequencies, but that is not really the case. We're also pretty darn bad at noticing distortion in the bass and there is often a LOT of distortion in the bass frequencies.

Your room is basically medium-sized and you've already mentioned that you are not looking for super loud output. I stick by my recommendation of a 2.1 system as a good subwoofer - properly placed - mated to some good quality bookshelf speakers will give you great clarity of sound, excellent dynamics, a smoother frequency response and much better detail in the bass than a simple pair of towers would deliver, IMO ;)

I would not limit myself to only considering soft-dome tweeters. People tend to think that metal tweeters have a particular sound, but once again, it is all about distortion vs. accuracy. When a metal tweeter distorts, it often "rings" or takes on a very harsh sound, while a soft-dome tweeter will usually sound more "spitty" or almost more like a buzzing or humming sound. But a distorting soft-dome tweeter is always worse than a non-distorting metal tweeter - and vice versa. There is nothing at all wrong with a metal tweeter so long as it is not distorting!

Anyways, given all of the various factors, the speakers that I would recommend to you are the RBH Signature Series with the 41-SE likely being the best choice, simply because of price. For the subwoofer, I would recommend the HSU STF-2, which will pair very well with the RBH speakers, fit within your budget and give you good extension down to 25Hz, which, for music, is perfectly adequate (unless you are a pipe organ fiend ;) )

As one last recommendation, please be sure to decouple the subwoofer from the floor! It makes a tremendous difference and also helps greatly to reduce the bass being heard throughout the entire house (or bothering your neighbors!)

You don't have to buy the decoupling device, necessarily, but I really do like the Auralex GRAMMA because, for $50, it really delivers and it is simple and very effective :)

Best of luck in your decision!
 
D

dazman

Audiophyte
try to find a used set of Klipsch rf-7's

amazing amazing amazing speakers. i power mine with a pass labs amp/preamp setup and ive never heard anything come close to this. i heard a 50,000$ system that couldnt beat mine!!! :) :)


good hunting!!
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top