And there's not a single commercial theater that uses anything as small as 12" woofers to achieve 10HZ or 16 Hz. Your room and system aren't going to do those frequencies well, if at all. Lose the idea that it's going to happen in a home theater, on less than a large budget.
Yeah I figured the HSU's can't do it, so I'm wondering what can? Do you happen to know the cheapest/smallest ones out there that can do it? If that means 30 inch and $50,000, then that's the answer, but until I hear what it is then I have no idea. Im guessing it will be more like 18 inch subs that cost in the $1,000 to $2,500 range, I dont know if at the lower or higher end of that range. I need to hear what the options are and then I can know if I can afford it and fit it in my room. My HT has a fairly hefty budget but it's running low at this point. Still maybe I could sell something else, go cheaper in another area, to get better subs. I just need to know what it will cost and then I can weigh my options. Without that info of what the options are, I can't really weigh them either way.
that is exactly why you won't be able to have these frequencies at any usable level.
I didn't understand this part. I know you can't hear the super low LFE, only feel it, but that's what I meant, to feel it. When you say "useable level" does that mean they have to go loud to be able to produce low the low HZ? Because I asked if the subs also have an issue with producing low hz at low volumes, not just an issue reaching high volumes, and I thought the answer was no. If it's no and I plan to use them at low-mid volume, then shouldn't that be useable or what do you mean? Not arguing with you, hope my tone is not coming off differently than I mean which happens a lot over the internet, just asking for clarification so we dont talk past each other.
We don't hear 10Hz-16Hz, we feel it and any sensation of hearing it is because the energy moves through our bones to the ears and it takes a lot of energy to produce these frequencies at sufficient SPL to make it seem realistic. It also requires subwoofers that can produce those frequencies and with a low budget, I don't see this happening.
Are you basically saying that while any sub that can hit say 30hz at 120spl will have an even easier time hitting 30hz at 50spl, that for the super low hz like say 5hz, this is no longer the case, and there will now be an issue not only reaching 5hz at high volumes, but also at low volumes? So it requires high volume to hit 5hz, even for a sub that can do 5hz really well at 125 spl? Or are you saying no, any sub that can hit 5hz at 125spl can also do it at low volumes even easier, it's just that you wont feel the sensation unless you do it at high spl?
If you meant the second, then I could probably do a custom curve where the audible frequencies are set to low-mid volume, but the low frequencies volume is raised because now that I can no longer hear it, only feel it, the high volume wont bother my ears or make too much noise.
Plus most people dont like subs at only mid volume or low volume either. They will say that to enjoy a sub playing 40hz bass, or any audible hz, you need it at reference, or close to reference, to get the proper experience. So how is this any different? If mid volume or low volume is, for me, at least better than nothing when it comes to the audible frequencies, then why wouldnt mid volume or low volume be better than nothing for the super low frequencies?
The demands for palpable bass below 16Hz or so skyrocket so rapidly that it isn't worth chasing unless you are a hardcore home theater enthusiast. The VTF-2 mk5 is one of the most affordable subs that can offer good deep bass performance. I would say the next best sub for chasing deep bass would be the Hsu VTF15h mk2 which has a 16Hz tuning frequency. Going lower than that gets ridiculous though. I think the Rythmik FV15HP has a 12.5Hz tuning frequency, but you are asking too much of that port for that kind of sub at that point. I wouldn't get one expecting competent performance at that frequency unless you were to get multiples.
If I were you, I would make it simple and just get another VTF-2. If you are after deeper bass, you need to step up to much larger and more powerful subs for that infrasonic bass to be significant, and then we are talking about large ported 15"s at least.
I was planning dual subs anyway, the question is which ones to get.
As far as the FV15HP, I think they have sealed models also. It would also be interesting to hear what are the cheapest sealed models that can go really low, since maybe sealed will have tighter bass also, some people say anyway. I'm wondering at what price point you can get the really top of the line subs. Do they start to become available at $1,000 or $2,000 per sub, or not until $10,000 or what? I just want to hear a list of the best subs as you go up in price and a couple sentence pros/cons summary of each, what you are getting as you go up the prices, and then we can see from those descriptions at what point the models that can go that low start to become available.
Rythmik FV 18's or Rythmik FV25HP duals of either would be a good start since you want good low bass performance at moderate volumes I'd recommend strongly the FV25HPs
Thanks, interesting. This unique tech that it has, is it comparable to a ported sub or sealed or in between? How low is it tuned and how is the mid bass and high bass to go with the low bass? Is it as precise as it is deep and loud?
To get rid of room nulls, it might be preferable to get two separate 15's that I could place in different spots, but maybe then it would lose some performance. Someone asked if I have space, I think the only places I will have space for like 18" subs will be either the back corners of the room, or center back of the room under the projection shelf, or the subs laying sideways underneath the projector screen, in between the center speaker under the screen and the right and left towers to the sides of the screen.
So my front stage could look like:
L.... S U B .... C ..... S U B .... R
with the subs laying sideways. Or I could have one sub on either side of the center channel, and the other in one of the three places back of the room. And I can move the subs a couple feet left or right either closer to the center channel or closer to the towers.
Depending how low to the floor my screen goes though, an 18" might be too wide even laying sideways, 15" might be my max.
That Rhythmik looks great though. Is that the cheapest option to achieve this? That's like $1,775 per sub. Are there any closer to $1,000 per sub if you buy two that can perform like Im asking? Probably not but just asking. Any competitors to the Rhythmik, particularly separates? It's a great recommendation, just looking to hear all the top options out there in the price range and the pros/cons so I can compare. Unless there's one clear choice that everyone agrees on, and nothing else worth considering, then that's different, but usually there are a handful of options worth considering, usually, at least for speakers and projectors, maybe its different with subs I dont know.
Thanks for your guys help.