Please help with Samsung 55"LED optical audio out problem!!!!

J

joeydego

Enthusiast
#1
Evidently, this is a common problem. I'm not getting 5.1 sound, or ANY sound when the source is 5.1 from the optical out into my Sonos soundbar (I have a full 5.1 sonos setup). The complete setup is as follows:

Samsung TV
Nintendo connected via component
Cable box HDMI
Roku 3 HDMI.
Optical audio out into Sonos playbar
I tried every parameter I can think of, set everything I see to DD, no good. I cant get netflix or anything else to play in 5.1, only stereo.
I'm under the inpression a device like this one can solve my problem, to keep the audio from ever getting to the TV and just pass video to it?
For only $39.15 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 4X1 HDMI® Switcher w/ Toslink & Digital Coaxial Port (Rev.2) w/ 3D support.

Thank you in advance.
 
P

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
1,004
#2
Many TVs will not pass DD 5.1 or any other multichannel audio out of their digital outputs unless the source is their own tuner. (And some can't even do that.) This is one of the reasons why a TV generally makes a poor hub for one's system, and A/V receivers serve that function instead. If your soundbar has an HDMI output (which is doubtful),you could hook things up directly to it and pass the video from it to your TV.

I do not think the device to which you have provided a link would work for you, because:

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Rating:
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Reviewer: Carlito from Niagara Falls, ON
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3/6/2013 8:05:04 AM



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Question about audio out
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Question about this:
* The S/PDIF Optical (Toslink) and Digital Coax audio output formats are based on the HDMI audio output. If any of the sync devices (e.g., HDTV, Projector, etc.) connected to the output can only support stereo audio, then the S/PDIF Optical (Toslink) and Digital Coaxial outputs will be limited to PCM stereo audio.

I need this switch since my tv doesn't forward dts or dolby digital through it's own spdif output.
Will this also not send 5.1 since the hdmi out is going to my tv?
The TV does have an option to switch audio from PCM to Auto (dolby) although the tv's output still doesn't send the 5.1 to the receiver.

Any help is appreciated.

by Monoprice Administrator
Hello Carlito,

You may need a dedicated receiver if your TV does not support 5.1 as this will always work with the lowest common denominator so if you have 2 channel pcm. It will output at 2 channel PCM, thank you!

John Lingo
Tech Support
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For only $39.15 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 4X1 HDMI® Switcher w/ Toslink & Digital Coaxial Port (Rev.2) w/ 3D support.

You may have to buy a surround receiver to do what you want. Or just live with stereo only for the sound, your choice. Sorry.

If you do decide to go with a receiver, I recommend Yamaha, as they tend to be reliable.
 
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J

joeydego

Enthusiast
#3
Maybe I'm confused. If the audio never gets to the TV from my Roku player or my cable box, why exactly wouldn't the device in question work? My signal path would be HDMI CAbles from Roku and cable into the device, optical out to my soundbar (sonos soundbar MUST use optical) and HDMI out to the TV. If the source audio never touches the TV before its split, why wouldn't the end result be 5.1?
 
P

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
1,004
#4
Because of HDMI "handshaking." Judging from the response by the Monoprice Tech Support person, the device does not act as a buffer between the source and the TV, and the TV tells the source that surround sound is a no go. With a fully capable surround receiver (with the source hooked up to the receiver's input and the HDMI output of the receiver hooked up to the TV),the receiver communicates with the source separately from the TV, and the receiver tells the source that surround is fine.

Now, I am basing this on that one reply by Monoprice Tech Support; I have no direct experience with that device at all. I suggest you contact Monoprice directly with your question, and refer to that answer on their web site, to make sure that the person responding to you has thought of that, and either will correct that if it is wrong, or tell you what I have told you already.

People have run into the same problem with little switch boxes for having 2 HDMI outputs to try to get 3D on their TV when their receiver cannot handle passing a 3D video signal (that is, they hook up their 3D BD player to the input of the switch box, and the two outputs of the switch box are connected to the receiver and the TV). But if the box does not act as a buffer between the things in question, the receiver tells the source that it cannot handle 3D, and so 3D is not output to the switch box. They can avoid buying a new receiver by buying a BD player with 2 HDMI outputs that communicate with each device separately, but if their BD player has only one output, then they have a problem.
 
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BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Spartan
Ratings
1,839 2
#5
HDMI has two huge headaches. The most common one that people think of is HDCP which is the content protection. No HDCP = no audio/video. But, in the long run it is not HDCP, but EDID which will cause a ton of headaches. EDID is the information which is sent between a destination and the source. That destination could be a switch, a audio de-embedder, a receiver, or a TV. But, many devices default to a 'lowest common denominator' format. They find out that something doesn't support 7.1 or 5.1 and they lock it out so the owner can't get it. EDID is tricky, and VERY poorly engineered by manufacturers. Since it doesn't cause the fatal issues of HDCP, it is barely a blip on their radar, and requires that owners of equipment buy MORE equipment to get past the issue. Even worse, finding HDMI specific EDID minders can be expensive and tough to do. Solutions are found in quality HDMI specific gear. Run HDMI to a surround bar w/HDMI, then onto a TV. Or you will have to use other audio flavors such as Toslink or SP/DIF. Good luck!
 
J

joeydego

Enthusiast
#6
I was told today by both Roku and Sonos tech support if I get a quality receiver that has pass thru, I should be able to hdmi into that, optical out of that into my 5.1 and will get true 5.1 that way. Although as stated here, I'm not sure this solution will stop the audio from being dumbed down, being the tv is still in the hdmi chain further down. I'll try it, I'd like a nice receiver anyway but I'm not completely sold this will work. Anyone with horror stories trying this same thing?
 
G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
415
#7
I was told today by both Roku and Sonos tech support if I get a quality receiver that has pass thru, I should be able to hdmi into that, optical out of that into my 5.1 and will get true 5.1 that way. Although as stated here, I'm not sure this solution will stop the audio from being dumbed down, being the tv is still in the hdmi chain further down. I'll try it, I'd like a nice receiver anyway but I'm not completely sold this will work. Anyone with horror stories trying this same thing?
Off the top of my head I cannot think of any receivers that have optical out, I'm really not sure this is sound advice you got.
 
J

joeydego

Enthusiast
#10
Unbelievable. After thousands on gear and looking to spend another grand, I STILL cant get the content I'm PAYING for.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Spartan
Ratings
1,839 2
#11
Unbelievable. After thousands on gear and looking to spend another grand, I STILL cant get the content I'm PAYING for.
Is there a reason why you can't use the optical or digital coaxial audio output which is on most of these products direct to a switcher?

I would test this by going directly from one of your sources to your soundbar and seeing exactly what you get. In fact, I would individually try each source to see what you get and make sure you are using a good surround source for playback. Go into your device's settings and ensure that optical output is turned on and that it is set to use the best quality audio possible. I recently ran into a setup where digital audio was not turned on with the device, and so there was no audio at all until I turned that audio on in the device's menu settings, then it worked great.

Obviously, you don't want to be running directly to the TV with your sources on the audio side, so leave HDMI audio out of this equation altogether. Stick with your native digital audio on Toslink or S/PDIF.
 
J

joeydego

Enthusiast
#12
Is there a reason why you can't use the optical or digital coaxial audio output which is on most of these products direct to a switcher?

I would test this by going directly from one of your sources to your soundbar and seeing exactly what you get. In fact, I would individually try each source to see what you get and make sure you are using a good surround source for playback. Go into your device's settings and ensure that optical output is turned on and that it is set to use the best quality audio possible. I recently ran into a setup where digital audio was not turned on with the device, and so there was no audio at all until I turned that audio on in the device's menu settings, then it worked great.

Obviously, you don't want to be running directly to the TV with your sources on the audio side, so leave HDMI audio out of this equation altogether. Stick with your native digital audio on Toslink or S/PDIF.
the problem with the Sonos Playbar is its only input is 1 optical input. I cant go HDMI or any other way it, it has to be optical. So from the Roku streamer, directly in is not possible. We tried 3 separate receivers today with optical outs, and it seems nothing will pass an HDMI source to optical in 5.1. All 3 devices passed no audio to the optical port at all from HDMI sources. The TV passes HDMI sources in stereo. I get sound, but it seems I can forget about 5.1. I REALLY want this to work. They'll take it back and I'm sure I can put something together thatll probably sound better for the price of this, but the wireless connect ability and intergration with my current music library all streaming wireless is too good to return. Im on the fence if I should bring this all back. I wish there was a receiver that would just pass the 5.1 optical from HDMI, but I think thanks to the MPAA we'll see that when pigs fly. Anyone, please provide links of devices/receivers/ whatever that you feel may help this problem. Thank you.
 
G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
415
#13
I wish there was a receiver that would just pass the 5.1 optical from HDMI, but I think thanks to the MPAA we'll see that when pigs fly.
I'll agree with this, but also to call this functionality "niche" would be quite an overstatement. There just aren't very many scenarios where it even makes sense to do this.
 
J

joeydego

Enthusiast
#14
I'll agree with this, but also to call this functionality "niche" would be quite an overstatement. There just aren't very many scenarios where it even makes sense to do this.
you have to understand, MY specific scenario although maybe not common is the one that matters most to me (especially because its underperforming). I really just fail to grasp WHY things are the way they are. All Im really looking for is a solution. Not only does the Sonos scenario make sense to connect 5.1 optically, its the ONLY option they give you. (Im not saying optical was a good choice for them to implement, just pointing out IM not the crazy one for wanting their product to WORK)
 
G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
415
#15
you have to understand, MY specific scenario although maybe not common is the one that matters most to me (especially because its underperforming). I really just fail to grasp WHY things are the way they are. All Im really looking for is a solution. Not only does the Sonos scenario make sense to connect 5.1 optically, its the ONLY option they give you. (Im not saying optical was a good choice for them to implement, just pointing out IM not the crazy one for wanting their product to WORK)
Yeah I completely understand your frustration, and the TV should really be able to do this. TVs are getting more and more poorly implemented features while neglecting things that could actually be useful, it's really sad. I on the other hand cannot really think of a reason I'd want a receiver to have this function.
 
G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
415
#16
I know this option is far less elegant, but have you considered picking up a Sonos Connect (linked below) and a more capable soundbar? It would give you the same sonos features, but require you to control the soundbar separately. I know there are other soundbars that have wireless rear speakers, though I could give you no advice on which direction to look for them.

Sonos CONNECT Wireless HiFi Player
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Ratings
12,204 49
#17
Hi. What is the model number of your TV? Some TVs will pass 5.1 from HDMI - but you might need to go into a service menu to enable it. Don't get your hopes up, because a lot of TVs won't...but it's worth looking into.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
7,140 14 24
#18
the problem with the Sonos Playbar is its only input is 1 optical input. I cant go HDMI or any other way it, it has to be optical. So from the Roku streamer, directly in is not possible. We tried 3 separate receivers today with optical outs, and it seems nothing will pass an HDMI source to optical in 5.1. All 3 devices passed no audio to the optical port at all from HDMI sources. The TV passes HDMI sources in stereo. I get sound, but it seems I can forget about 5.1. I REALLY want this to work. They'll take it back and I'm sure I can put something together thatll probably sound better for the price of this, but the wireless connect ability and intergration with my current music library all streaming wireless is too good to return. Im on the fence if I should bring this all back. I wish there was a receiver that would just pass the 5.1 optical from HDMI, but I think thanks to the MPAA we'll see that when pigs fly. Anyone, please provide links of devices/receivers/ whatever that you feel may help this problem. Thank you.
Optical Multichannel out from HDMI would be an illegal operation, and you won't find a receiver with this feature.

Basically there is a forcing of HDMI. You need a unit that receives, switches and sends over HDMI with the appropriate HDCP codes. If you try and do anything else, you will end up in a pile hurt like you have found out.

Unfortunately will all have to play by the rules and that means HDMI and its wretched HDCP codes and EDID.

In another post I advised using soundbars with HDMI switching.
 
J

joeydego

Enthusiast
#20
I think something like an HDFury might work for you. It's a bit spendy though.
My TV is a Samsung 55" UN55EH6000FXZA. Im sure it wont do it.

I am currently looking for a grey market solution such as this. I will have no problems at all sleeping at night, I assure you. What I need is about 3 or 4HDMI ins and clean hdmi video and optical 5.1 dolby out, remote controllable. Forgive me if discussion on breaking encryption and copy protection breaks the forum rules. Im paying for my equipment and content, I'd just like to watch and hear it!
 

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