Please help me upgrade my speakers from kef r3?

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elf4o

Audioholic Intern
Hello i bought kef r3 and nad m33

can you please advice me what next speakers i can get in order to upgrade my current kef r3 please .
my current consideration are
kef reference 1 meta ,

focal utopia diablo,
focal sopra 1, kanta 1 ,

or bowers and wilkinsons 805 d4 these i can order in my country i dont care about brands which i cant order, these are not available for try or test or demo them please advice i want something much better compared to kef r3 please i hope you will reply i want some dramatic improvement over kef r3.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Where are you located? We can guess... but you'll get a lot of different suggestion clogging up the thread! :p

(You will still likely get a lot of suggestions that won't work for you, but I can try to be helpful, at least. ;) )

BTW, forget B&W. People like them, true. It's also generally agreed they are overrated, especially at the price they ask. (To be fair, at least in the 800 series you get their best performance, but as above the price is steep.)
 
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elf4o

Audioholic Intern
Where are you located? We can guess... but you'll get a lot of different suggestion clogging up the thread! :p

(You will still likely get a lot of suggestions that won't work for you, but I can try to be helpful, at least. ;) )

BTW, forget B&W. People like them, true. It's also generally agreed they are overrated, especially at the price they ask. (To be fair, at least in the 800 series you get their best performance, but as above the price is steep.)
Hi i am from bg which is in Europe please stick my proposed speakers list i have dealerships for these only and they are not in stock i cant hear them i need to rely on this forum for advices. I dont need want other brand since no dealership .

all of the speakers i suggest here are very overpriced so thats why i am here to get the best speakers price per quality i will use speakers with nad m33 , should i go focal models and which one of the models i listed or kef reference 1 meta or bower and wilkonsons all of these same price range.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Hello i bought kef r3 and nad m33

can you please advice me what next speakers i can get in order to upgrade my current kef r3 please .
my current consideration are
kef reference 1 meta ,

focal utopia diablo,
focal sopra 1, kanta 1 ,

or bowers and wilkinsons 805 d4 these i can order in my country i dont care about brands which i cant order, these are not available for try or test or demo them please advice i want something much better compared to kef r3 please i hope you will reply i want some dramatic improvement over kef r3.
You should AUDITION for yourself first before buying your next speakers!

What's wrong with the KEF R3?

I don't see any of those speakers being "MUCH BETTER" than the R3.

Some of us prefer much BIGGER "bookshelf" speakers like the RBH SV-831R that measures 29" x 22" x 15" and weighs almost 43 kg (95 LBS). But for similar size as the R3, I doubt anything will be so much better.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Hi i am from bg
Bulgaria?

Welcome to AH. :)

I think the differences in the two KEFs will be minimal, though I have seen some folk raving about the newer Meta lines. Likewise, I have seen the occasional report of people stepping up to The Reference series from the R series and being super stoked.
The key question you need to answer for yourself is whether you like the KEF sound enough to stay within that brand.

I do not know Focal very well, though I have heard the Sopra Towers at one point several years ago... and I already shared my opinion about B&W. Focal's upper tier Speakers are generally well regarded.

I do agree with @AcuDefTechGuy and suggest that if you cannot listen to the Speakers, choosing an upgrade at that price point is risky.

Are these really the only options you have access to?

The R3 is no slouch and is considered a close match to the BMR Monitors I use in almost every way with only minor points tipping the scales one way or the other. At a certain point, the smart shopper has to ask themselves if a 1-3% improvement in Sound Quality is worth the additional cost. In US, that is a $7k difference between R3 and Ref1M. ;)

Out of curiosity, do you have access to the German brand, Canton? They are well respected and their upper tiers are reportedly very good quality. Not widely sold in the US, but there was a lower tier sold here that met with very high regard.

Regardless, I hope you find some guidance to help your decision. I still say "don't buy anything you can't listen to first or return if you don't like it!" :)

Happy hunting!
 
E

elf4o

Audioholic Intern
You should AUDITION for yourself first before buying your next speakers!

What's wrong with the KEF R3?

I don't see any of those speakers being "MUCH BETTER" than the R3.

Some of us prefer much BIGGER "bookshelf" speakers like the RBH SV-831R that measures 29" x 22" x 15" and weighs almost 43 kg (95 LBS). But for similar size as the R3, I doubt anything will be so much better.
Hi my place is small, i dont need full size or extremely big and heavy speakers i am in rented place ...

so none of the listed speakers can be considered as an upgrade to my kef r3 ?

i am looking for end game book shelves speakers i can try to find other brands but all of these are ultra popular. I mentioned.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
So you're giving up on your multi threads and advice given on ASR?
 
E

elf4o

Audioholic Intern
So you're giving up on your multi threads and advice given on ASR?
They decided to ditch me , from the place.

I also tried all of the advices they have given including moving speakers rotation etcs... directions etcs...

what models do you like from these focal,kef,and bowers and wilkinsons?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I don't blame them, you were polluting up the place with multiple threads based on your inexperience and indecision and poor environment. Let alone describe what actual issues are in terms anyone but you understand. Did you get those speakers off the desk to start? Put them on stands? I'm guessing not. Make room for stands, change your seating, do what you have to....nothing wrong with your hardware, it's in your setup (and probably just stuck in your head by now). Changing the speakers won't change your environment. The equipment isn't junk because you dont' like the results, let alone your ability to communicate just what is wrong with the sound compared to the car you have parked 10 miles away.....
 
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elf4o

Audioholic Intern
I don't blame them, you were polluting up the place with multiple threads based on your inexperience and indecision and poor environment. Let alone describe what actual issues are in terms anyone but you understand. Did you get those speakers off the desk to start? Put them on stands? I'm guessing not. Make room for stands, change your seating, do what you have to....nothing wrong with your hardware, it's in your setup (and probably just stuck in your head by now). Changing the speakers won't change your environment. The equipment isn't junk because you dont' like the results, let alone your ability to communicate just what is wrong with the sound compared to the car you have parked 10 miles away.....
i dont have stands,
and i dont have option to put them on stands by i focused them to me.
This topic is not really about these kef r3 speakers its about what next speakers i should buy again i dont like these KEF R3.
they are low quality speakers i provided many videos explaining and i also planned to provide mark levinson video vs kef r3 but got removed... so i cant...


i am looking for end game/high end reference speakers. Everyone have different taste i personally dont like kef r3 i bought them blindly since no dealership here to try and test any of the things i like/want...
i dont regret my purchase.

I will probably use kef r3 untill i receive my next speakers, which i have not yet decided what will they be...
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
They are not low quality speakers, your environment is the bigger problem. You seem to have some idea of a particular sound stuck in your head that you are unable to share/communicate with others. You didn't explain anything, the videos aren't of help, and you're comparing apples to oranges, between a car environment with multiple speakers vs your attempt at making these nearfield desktop speakers. Experiment on your own with the gear of your choosing and report back is probably the best avenue rather than polluting forums with your diarrhea-style posting.
 
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elf4o

Audioholic Intern
They are not low quality speakers, you're environment is the bigger problem. You seem to have some idea of a particular sound stuck in your head that you are unable to share/communicate with others. You didn't explain anything, the videos aren't of help, and you're comparing apples to oranges, between a car environment with multiple speakers vs your attempt at making these nearfield desktop speakers. Experiment on your own with the gear of your choosing and report back is probably the best avenue rather than polluting forums with your diarrhea-style posting.
My classical car have 2 front speakers 6.5 each
and 2 tweeters extremely small not 10 speakers or 20,
so compared to kef r3 it have more speakers...
2 tweeter, 2 speakers , and 2 bass sub speakers.. total 6...
Since i cant hear any of the gear i like i try to get proper opinion what to get. All things i have bought are from the help from forums.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I can tell you that you aren't going to recreate the sound of your car with other similar speakers. The B&W and Focal speakers will sound more like the KEFs than they will your car audio system. The different acoustic environments is the key differentiating factor here, not the audio gear. Your car environment is very well damped and controlled by its audio system. The audio system has been dialed in for that particular environment in a way that is nearly impossible to replicate for your home listening room. The reason is that the people who designed and calibrated the sound for your car knew exactly what kind of acoustic space they were dealing with, and that is a huge advantage. Home audio components do not have that luxury. The designers have no idea what kind of space they will end up in.

Make sure your room has some acoustic treatments; your car has very few acoustic reflections, and your room is much more acoustically lively. The less reflective your room is, the more it will sound like your car. After you do that, experiment with the target curves of auto EQ systems. My advice is to get a processor that has Dirac, and use different target curves until you find one you like.
 
E

elf4o

Audioholic Intern
I can tell you that you aren't going to recreate the sound of your car with other similar speakers. The B&W and Focal speakers will sound more like the KEFs than they will your car audio system. The different acoustic environments is the key differentiating factor here, not the audio gear. Your car environment is very well damped and controlled by its audio system. The audio system has been dialed in for that particular environment in a way that is nearly impossible to replicate for your home listening room. The reason is that the people who designed and calibrated the sound for your car knew exactly what kind of acoustic space they were dealing with, and that is a huge advantage. Home audio components do not have that luxury. The designers have no idea what kind of space they will end up in.

Make sure your room has some acoustic treatments; your car has very few acoustic reflections, and your room is much more acoustically lively. The less reflective your room is, the more it will sound like your car. After you do that, experiment with the target curves of auto EQ systems. My advice is to get a processor that has Dirac, and use different target curves until you find one you like.

Right now i am not looking to recreate my car sound i am looking to a big upgrade over my current KEF R3,
which one of these speakers you like the most?


i think you are not right
my car is 40 years old no audio insolation no tune up nothing simply swaping of few speakers and new head units and few amps. no dsp no eq.
i already have dirac
from nad m33, my topic is to choose /upgrade my speakers not another dirac i already have dirac included in nad m33 , no need for other diracs..
dirac is nothing special.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
You should AUDITION for yourself first before buying your next speakers!

What's wrong with the KEF R3?

I don't see any of those speakers being "MUCH BETTER" than the R3.

Some of us prefer much BIGGER "bookshelf" speakers like the RBH SV-831R that measures 29" x 22" x 15" and weighs almost 43 kg (95 LBS). But for similar size as the R3, I doubt anything will be so much better.
This guy has been sending me communications galore. The problem is he is deaf to the point of being stubborn.

There is nothing wrong with this speakers. They measure very well indeed.



The problem is they start rolling off at 70 Hz, so without one or two subs they will not sound properly balanced.

Speaker manufactures now assume, quite rightly, that speakers will be used with a sub or two. In times passed the HF was rolled off a bit. Now that is not required. You can not loose over two octaves of the musical bandwidth and expect it to sound correct. If he does not want to use subs, then he needs large expensive towers, that have an F3 of at least 34 Hz, or lower.
 
E

elf4o

Audioholic Intern
that chart is for kef reference 1 meta i own kef r3 old stuff.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
My classical car have 2 front speakers 6.5 each
and 2 tweeters extremely small not 10 speakers or 20,
so compared to kef r3 it have more speakers...
2 tweeter, 2 speakers , and 2 bass sub speakers.. total 6...
Since i cant hear any of the gear i like i try to get proper opinion what to get. All things i have bought are from the help from forums.
So the forums told you to buy the KEF R3 and you ended up hating it.

What if the forums told you to buy the KEF Reference 1 (or something as expensive) and you end up hating the new speakers also?

Most people would be extremely happy with any of these speakers.

But my general thinking is, since you don’t like the KEF R3, probably best to try another brand.

Speakers that are considered neutral sounding include KEF, Revel, Focal, RBH.

Speakers that may sound less neutral (wider frequency response tolerance) include B&W, Paradigm, Legacy Audio.

You are taking a risk buying very expensive speakers without auditioning them since you don’t like the R3.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Hi my place is small, i dont need full size or extremely big and heavy speakers i am in rented place ...

so none of the listed speakers can be considered as an upgrade to my kef r3 ?

i am looking for end game book shelves speakers i can try to find other brands but all of these are ultra popular. I mentioned.
I think any time we buy speakers from KEF or Focal that cost 2 or 3 times the cost of the R3, most people would consider that an “upgrade”. But there is absolutely NO GUARANTEE that you will like them better.

Most of us do NOT consider any speakers from B&W to be an upgrade because B&W don’t measure as accurately as KEF or Focal in general.

Are you asking if there are speakers that SUBJECTIVELY sound better than the R3 or OBJECTIVELY measure better than the R3?

If you mean subjectively, there is absolutely really no telling. We’re all different. It is just a big guess and gamble.
 
E

elf4o

Audioholic Intern
I think any time we buy speakers from KEF or Focal that cost 2 or 3 times the cost of the R3, most people would consider that an “upgrade”. But there is absolutely NO GUARANTEE that you will like them better.

Most of us do NOT consider any speakers from B&W to be an upgrade because B&W don’t measure as accurately as KEF or Focal in general.

Are you asking if there are speakers that SUBJECTIVELY sound better than the R3 or OBJECTIVELY measure better than the R3?

If you mean subjectively, there is absolutely really no telling. We’re all different. It is just a big guess and gamble.
is focal sopra 1. - which is model 7 years old better than kef reference 1 which one measures well? I have the best deal so far for bowers and kef... focal are very pricey..
 
M

mtrot

Full Audioholic
Well, since you simply do not like the sound of the Kef R3, it seems that you are most likely to enjoy a speaker that has a pretty different sound. People here are trying to use data to help you as best they can, and trying to help you avoid sinking a large amount of money into a new speaker that you may also end up not liking.

I'd suggest your Focal Kanta 1 idea is a good option, as well as B&W, since they will each have a pretty different sound from Kef.

Dali are not bad, either. You might like their Opticon 2.
1664935931792.png


Oh, also, Monitor Audio Silver 100 7th generation are getting a lot of chatter as a kick ass bookshelf speaker.
1664935831022.png
 

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