Please help... input is appreciated

[Guavamanh]

Okay guys, this is going to be a long one. I’m a newbie so please be nice… I tried my hardest to make this coherent… Basically my uncle wants to finish setting up his home theatre + multi-zone speakers in his home. The only thing that is bought so far is a 60 inch Sony TV, and a pair of floor standing Infinity Kappa 7.1 (from his old system). He also has a carver preamp and amp, but it’s just for stereo. We’re thinking of moving that into his bedroom. So basically, here’s the lineup with what we have in mind with Crutchfield’s prices after the 10% off special… I chose most of the components because of price, and because he would like Infinity speakers to match his floor standers. I chose the Denon 3805 because I don’t think he needs the newer technology of this year’s model. He just needs component video.

Living Room: Main Room with 5.1, 75% Movies, 25% Music
- Existing Sony 60 inch TV
- Denon DVD-1720 $135
- Denon 3805 $900
- Left and Right Channel: Existing Pair of Infinity Kappa 7.1
- Center Channel: Infinity Primus C25 $162
- Surround Backs: Pair of Infinity Primus 150 (Free w/ Infinity purchase)
- Sub: Infinity CSW10 $540
- Dayton Optical Cable from DVD Player to Reciever
- Dayton Component Cable from DVD Player to TV
- Dayton Subwoofer Cable from Reciever to Sub
- Wires for L/C/R/surround already set up for speakers
- B-Tech BT1 Speaker Wall Brackets $30

Dining Room: Ambient/Soft music, mostly classical with 2 Speakers
- Pair of Infinity OWS-1 $180
- He wants thin on wall speakers without the hassle of an IN wall…
- Wires are set up, just sticking out of the walls waiting for speakers

Kitchen: Ambient/Soft music, mostly classical with 2 Speakers
- Thinking of the Infinity TSS-SAT750 $180
- Not sure about the sound quality from these… recommendations are appreciated… but must be a small set of speakers
- Wires are set up, just sticking out of the walls waiting for speakers
- B-Tech BT33 Speaker Wall Brackets $30

My questions are:

1. Can this all be done without anything else besides the Denon 3805? I read the manual online and it seems to say that the 3rd zone needs an external/extra amp?? Then why label it as 3 zones? I talked to two guys at Crutchfield…

a. Agent (Andy.): "This unit provides a Multi-Zone Output function and a Select function that let you output different sources to multiple zones. Multi-room Zone 2 can have a pre-amp output along with a composite video feed. You can make the Zone 2 Pre-amp output variable o" 11/12/2005 08:11:20PM Agent (Andy.): "To simplify, you don’t need a separate amp for the third zone."
b. 11/14/2005 10:53:38PM Viet: " i was wondering for the multi zone do i need any extra amps to play music" 11/14/2005 10:55:49PM Agent (Bill.): "No. It has powered speaker outputs." 11/14/2005 10:56:20PM Viet: "ok because i read something that said that it needed powered speakers for zone 3, i just wanted to double check thanks for your time" Agent (Bill.): "Your correct the 2nd zone has speaker outputs. Zone 3 needs an amp." 11/14/2005 10:57:31PM Agent (Bill.): "Sorry." 11/14/2005 10:58:44PM Session Ended​

2. Do you guys have any suggestions for the setup/components (especially for the receiver or kitchen speakers)? Just make sure to follow the budget and site a reputable place to buy… no “Abes of Main” please….

Pictures to follow.... THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP!!!!

 

[Guavamanh]

reserved for pictures

He was running the Infinity Kappas 7.1 with these:
- Carver Sonic Holography A/V Preamplifier Tuner CT-3
- Carver Magnetic Field Power Amplifier TFM-35

The Living room is 12'x17'9'

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

That is a long post.

I'll start off by recommending this over the 3805 if you were budgeting for $900. The little extra is worth it if the tv has HDMI.

http://www.dakmart.com/website/ItemDetail.asp?ItemId=42975&cID=111

If not, try ubid.com or dakmart's 3805. They are usually around $700 with warranty. Ubid is where I bought mine, and I've never had an issue.

http://www.ubid.com/actn/opn/getpage.asp?AuctionId=10533619

As for a dvd player:
Would he consider this?
http://www.ubid.com/actn/opn/getpage.asp?AuctionId=10531135

Or this:
http://www.neodigits.com/body/special/dm051111-2085-50/special.asp

 

[mulester7]

.....Guavamanh, your Zone 3 is the pre-outs L&R on the back of the 3805....the pre-outs emit pre-amped stereo left and right full-range signals, that require amplification....this is no different from any quality surround receiver.....

 

[BMXTRIX]

That is correct, zone 3 is a completely separate audio output from the A/V receiver. It is a SEPARATE zone. Just because it isn't amplified, doesn't mean it isn't there and isn't perfect for something like distributed audio with an external amp and in-wall volume controls.

I would also double check as the I believe the output for zone 3 is line level and doesn't offer any sort of volume control. This is a big deal if there is no intention to put a volume control knob in the room.

Since the main zone is only 5.1 and is not 7.1, you do have amplification available for zone 2 and this volume can be controlled by the A/V receiver.

Extra zones from a good surround receiver are almost a gift and in recent years the jump from a lousy 2 zone setup to a halfway decent 3 zone setup is truly amazing.

Anyone have any info on the RX-V2500 w/3 zone control? Or is it identical to the Denon?

 

[jcPanny]

Multi zone and recomendations

The Yamaha RX-V2500 is a similar multizone setup to the Denon 3805: 2 amp channels assignable for surround back, pressence channels, or Zone 2. Line output for zone 3.

Are the 2 extra rooms wired for volume controls? If so, the impedence matching type could be used to connect both pairs of speakers to the receivers zone 2 output. Otherwise, an inexpensive zone 2 amplifier would be the best solution.

Concerning the main HT room, the surround channels should be placed on the sides of the listening position. The surround back channels (7.1) should be on the rear wall. Your room is big enough to benefit from 7.1 if the wiring is already in place.

Concerning speakers, your uncle has a high end 2 channel setup including his Kappas. You need a tonal match between center in front channels. To do this, select a high end infinity speaker with the same driver size as the kappas. For example the Beta C360 has two 6 1/2 inch drivers and a tweeter. You also might be able to find a used Kappa center off of audiogon.com. Also check the impedence of the Kappas as you might need to use the Carver amp to drive them properly if they are 4 ohm speakers.

You should also consider a decent pair of surround (and surround back) speakers that are the dipole / bipole type rather than using a pair of "free" speakers. The Beta ES250 for example. You should be able to listen to the Beta line at local Hi-Fi shops.

Infinity is not known for the subs. I would check out models from SVS and HSU in the $500-1K price range.

 

[Guavamanh]

Thanks for your help guys...

So are you saying that the first room can be 5.1 and the second room can have 2 speakers without an external amp, and volume to the second room can be adjusted via the Denon 3805 as well?

I guess I can use the Carver equipment for the kitchen as the 3rd zone? do you guys have recommendations for a pair of speakers in the kitchen?

Also.. any other recommendations for a reciever that can do three zones without an extra amp? Thanks!

I'm so annoyed at the crutchfield guys... I was about to order everything until I found out about the 3rd zone requiring an extra amp... How does that work anyways? I dont really have any experience with this stuff We're trying to get it all done by Thanksgiving because everyone is coming over to the house.... thanks for all your help~!

 

[MDS]

So are you saying that the first room can be 5.1 and the second room can have 2 speakers without an external amp, and volume to the second room can be adjusted via the Denon 3805 as well?

Yes, that is how most multi-room/multi-source receivers work.

So your options are:
1. 5.1 in zone 1 and 2.0 in zone 2 with no additional amps required.
2. 7.1 in zone 1 and 2.0 in zone 2 with one additional amp.
3. 7.1 in zone 1 and 2.0 in both zone 2 and zone 3 with two additional amps.

 

[jcPanny]

Zone 2 of denon

You can run 2 pairs of speakers off of the Denon Zone 2 amps if you have impedence matching volume contros or impedence matching speaker selector between the receiver and the speakers. There are no receivers (under $1K) that have an amplified zone 2 and zone 3. I think the Denon 5805 might have this in the $3-4K price range.

Like you suggested, you could use the carver as a Zone 3 amp but that would be way overkill for a couple small speakers in the kitchen. It would serve better as an outboard amp for the Front channels or a seperate 2 channel system in a bedroom or den.

The "free" bookshelf speakers you mentioned or other small speakers would work well for background music in the kitchen and other rooms.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Also.. any other recommendations for a reciever that can do three zones without an extra amp? Thanks!

http://www.dakmart.com/website/items.asp?cID=111&p=4

$3700 Denon 5805
170 watts x 10 into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.05% THD

Will control up to 4 zones

 

[mulester7]

Also.. any other recommendations for a reciever that can do three zones without an extra amp? Thanks!

.....so, Guavamanh, you can get a Denon 5805 for $3700 and shipping, that will handle 3 zones without extra amplification, or a $300 Behringer 2-channel slave-amp with very good specs, to go with your 3805....nothing hard about any hookups with the slave-amp......

 

[BMXTRIX]

...or use the receiver you have. Or go on eBay and pick up a used 2-channel amp which should be plenty good, for about 100 bucks for a decent model.

There are tons of choices here that don't cost you an arm and a leg.

 

[Guavamanh]

ok guys, thanks for all the help... im going to get the Denon 3805 and use the carver amp for the third zone.