please explain about ohms

selkec

selkec

Audioholic
Could someone please explain what ohms does. I mean I know its resistance. But I read on here everyone says it takes alot to power a speaker with 4 ohms compared to 8 ohms. To me, this does not make any sence. If a speaker has less resistance then it would allow more current or watts or whatever to get to it. Therefore less resistance seems to me it would be easier to power ,what makes it harder to run. This has me confused. please help me to unserstand:)
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
selkec said:
Could someone please explain what ohms does. I mean I know its resistance. But I read on here everyone says it takes alot to power a speaker with 4 ohms compared to 8 ohms. To me, this does not make any sence. If a speaker has less resistance then it would allow more current or watts or whatever to get to it. Therefore less resistance seems to me it would be easier to power ,what makes it harder to run. This has me confused. please help me to unserstand:)
Actually, it's *impedance* and not resistance. We're talking about AC not DC current.

Anyway, you're right in that a 4 ohm load will draw more current for a given power output. 100 watts into 4 ohms means 25 amps, whereas 100 watts into 8 ohms will draw about 12 amps.

Amps are hard for a receiver. Pushing out 25 amps instead of 12 amps is harder for the power supply of a receiver and will create more heat. In simple terms, power supplies are rated for a given number of amps at a given voltage. Try to draw more amps, and the power supply overheats and/or shuts down.

So, that's why it's said that lower impedance speakers are harder to drive.
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
Think of it this way:

A receiver pushes amps across a load. That's it's job. That's literally what it physically does. The better it is, the more amps it can push.

To generate the same *power* (volume) at a load with a lower impedance, the receiver needs to shove more amps across the load, which is harder for it to do.
 
selkec

selkec

Audioholic
thanks for the fast response. Its starting to make more sense to me now. I have had the wrong idea about it for so long I think Ill have to sleep on it for it to finally click for me. thanks again
 
evilkat

evilkat

Senior Audioholic
I know how you feel! I had this same question when I first came on! Here's another way to view it.

I=V/R where v=voltage, I=current, R=resistance/impedence

To maintain the same V over a speaker, if you decrease the resistance(from 8ohms to 4), you'll need to push more current throught the circuit.

Since
Power = I^2R ,

if you increase the current u'll increase the power required too.

Thus, lower the resistance, higher the power required! :eek:


Still not sure what the diff between impedence and resistance is. My fuzzy idea of it is that impedance is resistance that varies with frequency...and it stops around there :D
Is impedance: AC cct as resistance: DC cct?
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
In the Ohms Law equations the R is resistance and resistance is constant whereas impedance varies with frequency. So V=IR isn't perfectly accurate when looking at speakers because the R varies, but close enough for a government job.
 
Brian_the_King

Brian_the_King

Full Audioholic
Okay, but then why is it difficult for portables drive high impdence headphones if lower resistance requires more power? On Head-fi people are all like "need a good amp for Stax [600 Ohms]!".

I understood all this fine when I got into speakers, but now I'm interested in headphones as well and have become confused again! ;p
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
jonnythan said:
100 watts into 4 ohms means 25 amps, whereas 100 watts into 8 ohms will draw about 12 amps.
.

Not quite.:D
P= I*I*R
Hence, 100 watts=5A sq'ed *4 ohms.
or 100 watts= 3.53A sq'ed* 8 ohms.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
evilkat said:
Still not sure what the diff between impedence and resistance is. My fuzzy idea of it is that impedance is resistance that varies with frequency...and it stops around there :D
Is impedance: AC cct as resistance: DC cct?

Yes, impedance is AC, frequency related but it also comes into play with other parts, inductors and capacitors and frequency.:D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
selkec said:
Could someone please explain what ohms does. I mean I know its resistance. But I read on here everyone says it takes alot to power a speaker with 4 ohms compared to 8 ohms. To me, this does not make any sence. If a speaker has less resistance then it would allow more current or watts or whatever to get to it. Therefore less resistance seems to me it would be easier to power ,what makes it harder to run. This has me confused. please help me to unserstand:)

Think of it this way. Power is work related. Speakers exhibit certain impedance at certain frequencies. It also has a sensitivity rating, how much power is needed to create a certain amount of work, in this case a certain amount of SPL that you hear.
With the Ohms Law formulas in the post from evilkat, you can calculate the current demands by different impedance speakers. You can see that more current is required when the impedance is lower. But, as I indicated, the speaker's sensitivity also comes into play how much power you really need for a certain amount of SPL that you want to hear or capable of delivering from the recorded soundtrack reproduction.
 
dave1490

dave1490

Audioholic
selkec said:
Could someone please explain what ohms does. I mean I know its resistance. But I read on here everyone says it takes alot to power a speaker with 4 ohms compared to 8 ohms. To me, this does not make any sence. If a speaker has less resistance then it would allow more current or watts or whatever to get to it. Therefore less resistance seems to me it would be easier to power ,what makes it harder to run. This has me confused. please help me to unserstand:)
harder on the amp,less restance means more driving force.imagin a 0 ohm load that a short right well we all know what shorts do.
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
mtrycrafts said:
Not quite.:D
P= I*I*R
Hence, 100 watts=5A sq'ed *4 ohms.
or 100 watts= 3.53A sq'ed* 8 ohms.
Of course you're totally right. I don't know where my head was. It was late ;)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
dave1490 said:
well we all know what shorts do.

Arc welding comes to mind:D

Now we have two JBL folks here:D Nothing wrong with that. Toole is a great person:p
 
K

kenhoeve

Audioholic
I was always confused about this too until I thought of it in energy terms. Less resistance means less energy dissipated in the speaker. Think of how something of high resistance, say a toaster, creates a lot of heat. Well the energy that is used to heat the toaster is the same energy that runs your speaker. Less energy available generally means less noise. So like everyone has said, the amp has to drive more volume through low resistance to get the same amount of energy available.
 
A

Ampdog

Audioholic
evilkat said:
I know how you feel! I had this same question when I first came on! Here's another way to view it.

I=V/R where v=voltage, I=current, R=resistance/impedence

To maintain the same V over a speaker, if you decrease the resistance(from 8ohms to 4), you'll need to push more current throught the circuit.

Since
Power = I^2R ,

if you increase the current u'll increase the power required too.

Thus, lower the resistance, higher the power required! :eek:
QUOTE]

We still seem to have some confusion. When you say the higher the power required: For what? Not the same output; that will increase too! So one is simply only saying that the louder you want it, the more power you require - which is basic logic.

When one starts by saying "to maintain the same V over a speaker", that means that the output will get louder and louder as the impedance decreases. That does not necessarily make a 2 ohm speaker "harder to drive". Any impedance is harder to drive if one wants more volume. But if you turn it down to give the same volume as before, it is not really harder to drive. It requires more current, but at a lower voltage - one must now define the concept "harder to drive". No more power is required!

I think one must start at the energy required from the system, say 100W. Speaking ideally, for a 16 ohm load you will require 40V at 2,5A (all rms). For 8 ohm you will require 28V at 3,5A, for 4 ohm 20V at 5A, and so on.

For the same amplifier, the quoted statement becomes a little more true, because usually amplifiers are constant voltage devices. But the "harder to drive" concept is a little confusing as said because you also get extra watts, which one can turn down to compare "apples with apples". To go to practical figures again, if you have a 100W amplifier for an 8 ohm system, you are forcing it to give 200W into 4 ohm maximum if you turn it full blast. That is harder. But you apparently only wanted 100W in the first place - that is not harder.

This is a point often not taken into account in amplifier promotion. Is a 100W amplifier that can do 200W worse than a 100W unit that can do 400W? Sure - but what did one want in the first place - 200W or 400W? Your loudspeaker impedance must come into the equation, and an amplifier designed for that is what you are looking for. (One gets loudspeakers that are "harder to drive" than others, but that is another subject. Just to state here that I do not have too much time for those - it is the year 2007 and designers should be able to maintain a fairly constant impedance. The technology is available.)

I hope this helps despite being lengthy.
 
A

Ampdog

Audioholic
Sorry, folks, somehow the quote did not come over blocked. Hope no confusion!
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
Ampdog said:
Sorry, folks, somehow the quote did not come over blocked. Hope no confusion!
You just messed up the end quote tag. You can edit your post and fix it.
 
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