Please critique PC/Office 2.0 or 2.1 proposed setup

[Industrial]

Hi all- this will be by first high quality setup after researching here and elsewhere for months doing the required research before asking a bunch of silly questions. As title states, would like to get your expert feedback on a decent computer/office 2.0 or 2.1 system for around ~$1k.

PC / Office Desktop System

Background info:

Room: Office is only 5’ deep with desk facing out into another room by 8’ wide, speakers will be on desk firing towards rear wall 5’ away with me in between (near field listening), room opens up into a 20’x10’ loft if that matters (pics attached to clarify)

Sources: Computer library only

Proposed system:

Computer library (via USB) --> Audioengine D1 DAC --> Emo mini-X a-100 --> CBM-170’s (Total: $650)

To sub or not to sub: (probably down the road a bit)

Looking at the HSU STF-2 sub ($360), but need a little advice on the best setup:

Mini-X’s speaker posts --> CBM-170’s
AND
Mini-X’s full range RCA outputs (can’t tell if these are line level or not) --> STF-2

OR

Mini-X’s speaker posts --> STF-2’s high level inputs (crossover set to 70Hz) --> CBM-170’s

By NOT removing the lower freqs going to the 170’s, will it not sound “blended” correctly, vs. running everything through the sub and letting it handle the bass management?

Thanks for the help all- comment/critiques welcome, and I promise to report on the results after everything is installed and auditioned.

-Chris

 

[Pyrrho]

These kinds of things always depend upon one's specific goals and preferences. Probably, the cheapest way to get good sound would be to buy a used, outdated surround receiver, so you can use its digital inputs and avoid spending money on a separate DAC, and it also serves as the ąmplifier and can handle bass management if you go with a subwoofer. You then will have a lot of money left over for speakers, which will make more difference in the sound than anything else. I picked up a THX certified Yamaha HTR-5790 in great condition for less than $100. If you found a similar deal, you would have $900 to spend on speakers.

As for your bass management question, if you have the subwoofer and the main speakers reproducing some of the same frequencies, most likely, you will have those frequencies exaggerated and therefore have less accurate sound. So it is a good idea to filter out the bass to the main speakers that will be sent to the subwoofer. Most subwoofer crossovers do NOT filter the outputs for the main speakers, so you likely will need something like a surround receiver/processor to do this. (From a quick look at the manual of the subwoofer you are considering, it seems to follow the usual pattern, as it says that the crossover is "low pass only". So its setting will be irrelevant to what is sent to the main speakers, which would require a high pass crossover [as it would be passing the frequencies higher than the crossover point].) On the other hand, if you like boomy bass, then you may prefer to have the bass go to both.

 

[ImcLoud]

You are definitely on the rite track... It is pretty much identical to my desk setup EXCEPT, I swapped out the cbm170s for a set of 200s, then swapped the 200s for a set of Wharfedale EVO2 08's, and while I love HSU subs, I bought a matching wharfedale 12" sub {all in matching light maple}. The Evo8s just sounded a little better while rite in front of my face, but the biggest reason for me changing was the aesthetics, the ascends sound awesome but they look so cheap with the vinyl finish.. In a theater they are awesome, but rite in front of me at my desk, I wanted something wood with a nice fit and finish...
If you are interested there is a set of evo 08s in rosewood on ebay for $295 buy it now, they wont last so if you are interested I would jump on them.... Also a set of evo 2 10's {a little larger but also sound great} in light maple for the same price from another seller.. Just search wharfedale Evo on ebay...

I also use the same emo mini amp for my desktop, I used to use a dayton apa150 which also sounded good {I would put them in the same league when it comes to sound, the apa is a little cheaper and has a little more output, but is harder to fit on your desk, which was my reason for going to the minix....

Next is the dac, you chose the rite one, I own a couple, and love them...

Next for the sub, HSU would be what I pick, the stf2 is a good sub for the money, to get better you would have to spend more or build it yourself....

Hope this helps, if you care about the looks {which you may because you have a really nice desk} look into them wharfedales on ebay, they look new... If you don't want used the wharfedale diamond 10.1 and 10.2 s are really nice bookshelfs too....

Just trying to give you some options, but as is you have a great system laid out there. You may want to do some measuring the cbm170s are a biggish bookshelf, the 200s are much more at home on a desk, and sound just as good, and better with a sub...

As for crossing its simple I use FMods Amazon.com: FMOD Crossover Pair 100 Hz High Pass: Car Electronics between my dac and amplifier... then play with the subs crossover until they melt together with no seem... I tried 70hz, 80hz, 100hz,, and 120hz high pass fmods, the 100s sounded best... With my towers the 80s sounded best, so each system and room may be different, 100 is a good place to start... Plus doing this will allow the amplifier to focus its energy creating the mids and highs leaving the lows to the subwoofer...

I can load up some pics of my desk top if you like..

PS- 1 more thing to consider, I think this would make an awesome 2.1 system...

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-42451-focal-chorus-sw700v-subwoofer.aspx
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-41245-focal-chorus-705v-bookshelf-speakers-pr.aspx

 

[Industrial]

Damn you, ImcLoud, just when I thought I had my speaker choice locked down....

There's a reason why my proposed setup sounds so familiar- I've taken several queues from your signature and did my research based partly of those components, as it seems you always have great advice and know your stuff.

D1 DAC is on order, but before I order those CBM170's, I think I may audition the Focals, as they do look great. I may even order both and send the loser back. The EVOs-08's on the bay are tempting as well- and are a beautiful speaker. Like you, the aesthetics mean a lot to me and the Ascends look like a $40/pr of speakers. The only problem is that I doubt I'd be able to find a pair of EVOs to hear.

Thanks for the tip on the high pass Xovers. How do you split the signal after the DAC to send the over 100Hz to the Xmini and the full range line level to the sub?

And sure, pics are always helpful

Thanks again,
Chris

 

[ImcLoud]

I split the rcas coming out of the dac, then send 1 set to the amp and 1 set to the sub {use both inputs on the sub}, install the high pass fmods on the amplifier side of course...

I will get some pics up for you today...

I don't want you to get me wrong, the cbm170s and the 200s, and every ascend speaker made for that matter sound great.... BUT, the with the exception of the sierra line they look like similar to a $40 set of PE speakers, sure they have SEAS components that are some of the best in the business, and truthfully have no business being in a $350 set of speakers, but the fit and finish is, well.. Sub par... I always wondered why they never offered a nice finish for a little extra cost, Im sure a lot of people would go for it... I have considered having mine veneered over...

But anyway, you have a nice looking room there, and something wood would be much better than a black vinyl square... Them focals just hit the sale rack and I have heard them {never heard the sub, but Dave for MD said its impressive for its size}, if you could stretch your budget to fit them books and that sub, Im sure you would be impressed. Keep in mine the ascends sound like speakers that cost twice as much, but the Focals cost twice as much normally, I think you will come up with a draw or close second, its going to come down to what you prefer and trying both is definitely the way to go...
And you have to admit them focals are sexy, and I love matching subs... Plus one of them subs just sold on ebay used for $700...

 

[ImcLoud]

here's a couple pics of my current office setup, sorry my home office is always a mess, and excuse my el'cheap O PC setup, but we always use the laptops and this pc is basically used when we need to print something... But anyway, I made the maple riser blocks for the displays so they would clear the mini x amp, my dac is in the top drawer, the sub is rite next to the desk, and everyone that hears this can't belive how much sound comes out of 2 small bookshelfs and a sub, I built this system for under $1000 and couldn't be happier, there are some pics around here when I had the CBM up there and they sounded great too, but they didn't look as nice, I think they are awesome for a theater or something like that where they aren't being a visual center piece, but somewhere like an office or a Den I would look into something that sounds good and looks appealing...

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

My 2 humble cents
See my sig for my humble pc audio setup. basically it's simple D1 to jbl monitors. Since they dig pretty deeply (just about 50hz) (well, other than 1812 canon shots) I didn't feel the need for sub
Oh, and they can play VERY Loudly yet still very cleanly. 112 DBs at 1 meter (pair)
Amazon.com: JBL LSR2325P Two-Way 5" Bi-Amplified Studio Monitor: Musical Instruments
It's a pretty good price, I snatched mine on one off (custom) sale for $374/pr... Imo at 300/pr they are simply a steal.

 

[GranteedEV]

another big pro of the above jbls is that they will be less sensitive to the assymmetry of the OP's room setup, because the tweeter has a less wide dispersion pattern.

 

[Industrial]

Thanks for the feedback so far everyone- extremely helpful.

ImcLoud, thanks for the pics and info on splitting after the D1. One last question- with that setup do you have to adjust the volume on the mini-X AND the back of the powered sub anytime you want to adjust the volume?

 

[ImcLoud]

I use the volume control on my PC, I set the amplifier and the sub at what sounded good to me with the pc volume 1/2 way up, and the dac all the way up... Then I use the pc volume control to control it when adjusting it.. I hardly ever touch the sub or the emo amp and I leave the dac all the way up all the time... So when I listen to music and want it louder I just go to the right side of my lower screen where the little speaker icon is and then slide it up... Plus I leave the amplifier and sub on "auto" so when they sense a signal they turn on, I dont turn the sub and the amp on everytime, its all automatic, which is what I wanted, so I use the minix volume knob as a gain control, I actually have a little tape on it so no one touches it.. The sub is turned to about 75% and the mini x is around 90% up and the loudest I ever have to slide the volume on the pc is about 30%, if I go 70% on the pc slide it sounds like a concert in there, lol... You dont need much power honestly if I had it to do over I may go with a lepai 20x20 for $25, I love that little amp, We have had one for almost a year now, and crank it up all the time and it never skips a beat, and with some mildly efficient speakers or speakers close to your face they are a good choice, I want to say it sounds as good as the mini x too!!!! That little amplifier is on to something, one of the hidden gems of audio, if you ask me... it sounds so clear and clean...

 

[Industrial]

Thanks for the setup info.

Everything I've read on PC audio indicates that you should max out Windows volume when ever possible since Windows actually reduces bit-depth to attenuate sound levels at below ~80% PC volume.

On the mini-X, it has a buffered line out which copies the line in, so if you have a variable line in, you should get a variable line out signal that I was going to use to send to the powered sub. This way I wouldn't need to split the RCAs coming out of the D1 DAC.

Since the D1 DAC's output is a variable line out, I would use the D1 to control the sound levels to the speakers and the sub once I get the volume knob (gain control) set on the mini-X and the gain set on the powered sub.

Seem like that should work?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

To be honest I'm not huge fan on how D1 controls the volume and I also control the volume thru windows controls. I tried to hear the difference but I couldn't
Maybe it was an issue with earlier versions, but it is not such a huge issue with modern versions.
Again louder is perceived as better by human ear to real effect of bit depth reducing is harder to judge (if it is happening at all).
I have heard same audio track reduced from 24 to 8 bits and honestly even at 12 bit depth it sounded ok to me

By the way you have another option altogether - Vanatoo | Technology Serving Art
All in one: Dac, Speakers and sub in one small package
Too bad the volume control is on the back

 

[Industrial]

FYI- I just bought those Evo2-8's on the bay for $245 with a little counter offer action

 

[ImcLoud]

Very good buy, you will love them, if not I may be interested in buying them from you...

 

[ImcLoud]

Thanks for the setup info.

Everything I've read on PC audio indicates that you should max out Windows volume when ever possible since Windows actually reduces bit-depth to attenuate sound levels at below ~80% PC volume.

On the mini-X, it has a buffered line out which copies the line in, so if you have a variable line in, you should get a variable line out signal that I was going to use to send to the powered sub. This way I wouldn't need to split the RCAs coming out of the D1 DAC.

Since the D1 DAC's output is a variable line out, I would use the D1 to control the sound levels to the speakers and the sub once I get the volume knob (gain control) set on the mini-X and the gain set on the powered sub.

Seem like that should work?

OK, I tried this a few different ways, and I am aware of the issues with using the windows volume knob, but I tried to hear a difference and couldn't, so to my ears using the volume knob vs the windows sounded exactly the same.. Try it for your self...

Now here is the problem I found with feeding the sub how you are talking with the output of the amplifier has an issue with my system, I wanted to cross out the bass before the amp, so therefore the amp never sees a signal lower than 100hz {well it is -12db anyway} so if I send that signal to my subs amp it will not play.... That is why I split out of the dac, then went to the sub and installed the fmods in between the dac and mini-X... Make sense? I have played with this a lot, and the sound with the evo08s getting crossed to the sub is the best I could get it, if I didnt cross them at all my desk would vibrate the amps power would be getting used to reproduce bass that the sub was drowning out anyway plus all the other negative sound attributes that come with the use of a sub and full range speaker for the same material...

Fmods, splitters, and RCA cables are cheap and you will hear the difference, the windows volume control will be much more convenient and you will never hear the difference... I know I tried for a while and it sounds the same... I could use the dac volume knob but the windows slide is way more convenient for me....

don't forget to post pics when them evos come in...

 

[Industrial]

Here we go- thanks to all the helpful advice.

PC (JRiver) --> Meridian Explorer DAC --> Emotiva MiniX --> Wharfdale Evo2-08's

DAC: I auditioned both the AudioEngine D1 DAC and the Meridian Explorer DAC, after burning both in- no contest, this Meridian Explorer DAC is phenomenal! Sound stage and instrument separation are beautiful and I really like how they handle the volume control (JRiver volume control used.) Both fixed and variable line level outs- I'm using the variable level to feed into the EmoMiniX

Speakers: I auditioned the Wharfdales and Ascend 170s (both burned in.) Sound was very similar, but I went with the Wharfdales due to just being more enjoyable to listen to for long periods of time. Vocals are incredible, speakers are never harsh, just so silky smooth and fun. Not to mention they look incredible and got a great deal on a used pair that are absolutely mint- not a scratch.

Initially I wanted something for near-field on my desk, but I ended up setting these up on stands in my loft and using my old projection TV as a desktop extension to control JRiver with a wireless mouse.

Since, I've been ripping all my old CDs and DVD audio disks using JRiver and DVD audio extractor to my hard drive. Also purchased some HD music on HDTracks, as the Meridian Explorer supports all rates including 24/192. I can't say enough about this DAC.

Anyway- here are some pics.