Please critique my setup!

[Eppie]

Thanks for the info. I'd like to see a technical review in both the horizontal and vertical positions. Not that I don't believe @gene but I'd just like to know

I wasn't able to find any. I registered and downloaded the technical paper but it only has the usual marketing and technical specs. What is interesting though is that they also make an Opticon Vokal Mk2 on-wall which is specifically designed for centre channel duty. More expensive than the LCR but might improve dialogue intelligibility.

EDIT: The Vokal is on shelf, not on-wall, so nyx that idea.

 

[-Jim-]

I wasn't able to find any. I registered and downloaded the technical paper but it only has the usual marketing and technical specs. What is interesting though is that they also make an Opticon Vokal Mk2 on-wall which is specifically designed for centre channel duty. More expensive than the LCR but might improve dialogue intelligibility.

EDIT: The Vokal is on shelf, not on-wall, so nyx that idea.

@Eppie , I think both of us are really trying to help @TheRealOC get this sorted, within his parameters, and without being negative. I'm always trying to be conscious of the budget folks advise, and try to not encourage wasteful expenditures that don't give back significant results. (Hence my position on the amount of Subs and other speakers in this room.) @TheRealOC is going through a lot of effort, and getting WAF buy-in is tough at times. So not over building initially (but just pre-wiring) is a way to step up into expenditures gradually as to can document their need.

Anyway, I'm just trying to be helpful.

 

[Eppie]

@Eppie , I think both of us are really trying to help @TheRealOC get this sorted, within his parameters, and without being negative. I'm always trying to be conscious of the budget folks advise, and try to not encourage wasteful expenditures that don't give back significant results. (Hence my position on the amount of Subs and other speakers in this room.) @TheRealOC is going through a lot of effort, and getting WAF buy-in is tough at times. So not over building initially (but just pre-wiring) is a way to step up into expenditures gradually as to can document their need.

Anyway, I'm just trying to be helpful.

Yes, I realise that and I'm glad when others chime in. I'm not a professional integrator so other opinions are always welcome. It's always challenging trying to find any measurements for on-walls. They rarely receive 3rd party testing. Closest I could find to a review was this but much of what seems to be on that web page is gleaned from technical brochure.

It's a shame that Erin had some personal difficulties to overcome. He final made an infinite baffle test setup but never got around to testing many on-walls.

 

[-Jim-]

Yes, I realise that and I'm glad when others chime in. I'm not a professional integrator so other opinions are always welcome. It's always challenging trying to find any measurements for on-walls. They rarely receive 3rd party testing. Closest I could find to a review was this but much of what seems to be on that web page is gleaned from technical brochure.

It's a shame that Erin had some personal difficulties to overcome. He final made an infinite baffle test setup but never got around to testing many on-walls.

I hear @ErinH is almost back in business after those major moves in his personal life. It will be great to see what he's going to test next. Of course I'd like him to do HSU's CCB-8s soon but I'm prejudiced. Maybe he'll get to these DALI Opticon LCR II sometime too.

 

[TheRealOC]

@Eppie @-Jim-

Hi guys, sorry for the delay in replying, just wanted to say thanks for the feedback. I think I might very well be going overboard with the subwoofers; the logic at the time was that I was set on using mostly Monitor products, but their in-wall subs weren't exactly the most powerful. Starting with one adequate in-wall like the SVS 3000 could be the move. I'll also look into the Opticon Vokal Mk2 now. And also I didn't sit on the ends of the couch closer to the rear speakers (only in the centre) so I'll keep that in mind.

Sorry again about the delayed reply; I was dosed with a bad go of bronchitis for the past few days.

 

[-Jim-]

@Eppie @-Jim-

Hi guys, sorry for the delay in replying, just wanted to say thanks for the feedback. I think I might very well be going overboard with the subwoofers; the logic at the time was that I was set on using mostly Monitor products, but their in-wall subs weren't exactly the most powerful. Starting with one adequate in-wall like the SVS 3000 could be the move. I'll also look into the Opticon Vokal Mk2 now. And also I didn't sit on the ends of the couch closer to the rear speakers (only in the centre) so I'll keep that in mind.

Sorry again about the delayed reply; I was dosed with a bad go of bronchitis for the past few days.

No problem, we all understand health issues (I have been battling a cold (hopefully nothing worse) for 5 or 6 days now. I keep posting quickly here as I think you must want to finish the pre-wire, and button up the walls ASAP to get on with finishing the room.

In such a small room, with only one listening position, a single sub could suit you just fine. But just for insurance, and because a bit of extra speaker wire is cheap (go Monoprice in wall). I'd make use of the existing framing (assuming it's all 16 inch on center) and a move the sub(s) a bit towards the corner from your photo. (You'll get a bit more corner loading then too.) I'd start with the right one on the TV wall, and then add the left one only after the room was fully set-up and finished; and I found it necessary. Or if you just want to go for it, do it all up front. It's your money.

My take on the Monitor sub is the frequency response at best => according to their specs is "28 Hz — 120 Hz (when mounted in optimum enclosure)" I never saw a deviation spec so you really don't know what it will put out. I noticed it doesn't come with a "back box" and even though I looked on their website I couldn't find instructions for an "optimum enclosure". Did you ever find it? If you don't have that enclosure, the bottom end will be much higher no doubt. My understanding, and even in some of the comments I read on the web, there is a strong possibility of little isolation from the structure is you just mount the sub onto the wall board.

To Bassaholics, 28 Hz just won't cut it and to some, a Sub needs to dig down to at least 20 Hz. The SVS 3000 In-Wall specs are:

• +/-3dB 22Hz to 250Hz
• In-Room Low Frequency: -19Hz

• Single Subwoofer Max Output @ 32Hz 1/8 space 1m = 107.6dB
• Dual Subwoofers Max Output @ 32Hz 1/8 space 1m = 110.6dB Combined

I also notice the Monitor subs don't come with amplification, so when I take a quick look at costs (based on US website listings), pricewise the SVS offering should be competitive while being a superior product with all bits included. I don't want to come across as a SVS Fanboy, but there isn't much out there that I see for real in-wall subs with specs.

I wish @gene would chime in on the center speaker, or there was some test results on it. After all this effort, you deserve to best sound in this room you can install.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[TheRealOC]

Evening all

Just wanted to thank everyone for your input and recommendations throughout this thread. After much consideration and careful planning, I have decided to go with the following 7.4.4 setup:

The front left and right speakers are DALI Opticon LCR MK2 On-Wall Speakers, which are mounted so that the bottom edge of the speaker is 95cm (just over 3 feet) above the floor level), and they're slightly closer together than before - the front of the sofa is 8 feet away from the TV wall, so the tweeters of the two front speakers are approx. 8 feet apart also

.

Instead of rotating a third MK2 for the center, I'm going to setup a DALI Opticon Vokal MK2 Centre Speaker on a floating shelf under the TV. It won't be perfectly in line with the tweeters on the front left and right, but it'll be pretty close.

The TV is now an 85 incher - the width and height are marked out with red tape. The center of the TV does feel quite high up on the wall, but with a slightly higher sofa and some head support, I think it should be fine.

There are four in-wall Monitor Audio IWS-10 subwoofers in this room; and they're each going to be installed in an IWB-10 pre-construction back box. The two front subwoofers will face outwards from the TV wall, and the rear two subwoofers will projector perpendicularly across the back of the sofa. The front subwoofers will be as far apart as possible, for a nice even bass and all four subwoofers are going to be positioned as low as physically possible. This setup is going to be powered by an Anthem MRX1140 AVR, which has two subwoofer line-level outputs. Each of those outputs will run to an IWA-250 amplifier. The first IWA-250 will power the front two subs, and the second IWA-250 will power the rear two subs behind the sofa. To avoid messing with the AVR's room correction, the front two subs will have to be on the same amp, and the two rear subs will have to be on the same amp.

For the side surround speakers, I decided to move them down by 1 foot in height (so that the bottom of the speaker is 47 inches/120cm above the floor level). I swapped out the Monitor Audio W280 in-wall speaker for the CP-WT260, as the latter has pre-built back box enclosures, so we can simply cut out the plasterboard and insert the speaker, without giving the carpenters any extra headaches.

For the tricky rear surrounds, first I moved the sofa forward by one foot. So now, the front of the sofa is 8 feet from the TV wall, and there's a little more space between the back of the sofa and the rear speakers. Going with SoundFrame 3 In-Wall for rear surrounds; they're a more compact speaker, and once again, the back box is pre-built. They're also quite a shallow speaker, which is good because the stud of the rear wall is only about 70mm deep. Line up the centre of the Soundframe 3's with the tweeters of the CP-WT260 side surrounds.

For Atmos, instead of two overhead speakers, we're going with four C280-IDCs. The front Atmos pair are 1/4 of the way up the length of the room (about 3 feet from the TV wall), and the back Atmos pair are about 3/4 of the way up the room's length (nearly touching the steel girder). Width-wise, everything is line with the front left and right DALIs. The C280-IDCs will use a Hoody 2; won't bother with an in-ceiling back box.

Thank you again to @gene and everyone who commented for all your help and suggestions; will post pics when I have the cable runs completed and when we start installing speakers in the room.

Cheers!

 

[Trebdp83]

Enjoy it!

 

[-Jim-]

I hope it meets your expectations and you love it for years.

 

[snakeeyes]

Looking good. Any plans to upgrade the seating?

 

[Wardog555]

You place the atmos speakers as per angles from the mlp.
It sounds like you made the decision to make it based on room dimensions instead.

Was there any design or planing based on angles from the main listening position?

I'll even offer to pm you my future home theater setup design that has the correct positioning of the speakers.

 

[TheRealOC]

Looking good. Any plans to upgrade the seating?

Oh definitely I only got that sofa for free from a local listing, so I'd have a reference point for the listening position.

 

[Eppie]

Looks like you have things well in hand now. I would echo Wardog555's comments on the ceiling speakers. Dolby and AVR manufacturers have specific requirements for ATMOS speaker placement. You can look up the Dolby spec or view the owners manual for the AVR. They usually include angles as measured from the seating position. From the photos the front ATMOS may be too far away but we can't judge the angle on the photo alone.

If the height of the screen is a concern, you can safely lower the screen and centre. The middle of my centre is only 34" off of the floor but when I'm seated it's only a little below ear level. Looks like you could easily drop it by 6" or so and have it close to ear height. Don't worry too much about having the exact same height as the L+R. You may also need some room above the TV to get to it to hook onto the wall mount if it's not a swing arm. Having it tight up to the ceiling may make installation a challenge (check the wall mount instructions).

Much better placement of sides and rears and the distance between the couch and wall should be ok for rear surrounds. Should be a very nice setup when all complete.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Looks like you have things well in hand now. I would echo Wardog555's comments on the ceiling speakers. Dolby and AVR manufacturers have specific requirements for ATMOS speaker placement. You can look up the Dolby spec or view the owners manual for the AVR. They usually include angles as measured from the seating position. From the photos the front ATMOS may be too far away but we can't judge the angle on the photo alone.

If the height of the screen is a concern, you can safely lower the screen and centre. The middle of my centre is only 34" off of the floor but when I'm seated it's only a little below ear level. Looks like you could easily drop it by 6" or so and have it close to ear height. Don't worry too much about having the exact same height as the L+R. You may also need some room above the TV to get to it to hook onto the wall mount if it's not a swing arm. Having it tight up to the ceiling may make installation a challenge (check the wall mount instructions).

Much better placement of sides and rears and the distance between the couch and wall should be ok for rear surrounds. Should be a very nice setup when all complete.

Pretty much agree. Will add that if the pics are accurate, the sides and rear surrounds are still
too high. Imo, there’s still not enough room between the rears and LP to warrant a 7ch bed layer. Probably the same for rear tops too but I’d have to do some math…
Also the monitor subs will be a fail too. I know, I sound negative, but I’ve done this before.
10lbs of shitt in a 5lb hat…

 

[mono-bloc]

Pretty much agree. Will add that if the pics are accurate, the sides and rear surrounds are still too high. Imo, there’s still not enough room between the rears and LP to warrant a 7ch bed layer. Probably the same for rear tops too but I’d have to do some math… Also the monitor subs will be a fail too. I know, I sound negative, but I’ve done this before. I tend to agree with William, grand plans with little experience or practical knowledge with regard to any placement. While the theory might well add up, the finished product may well be a complete disaster. You really should get some practical experience by auditioning, and viewing some home theatre examples. Talking to the owners and learning about what pit-falls or success you can expect.. It's going to be a bit late once the dry-walls [gyproc] are up and finished to discover that your speakers are not quite what you expected. I'm sorry if I sound like the voice of disaster, But I've seen this happen on more then one occasion, where all the written advice, simply did not add up, when it came to the practical application. While you have had well meaning advice from people in this thread, Just how many of them have attempted to do what your about to do.. While my comments might sound negative, I really do wish you well, and hope all goes well, But much discussion about where the lounge goes, won't help if speaker positioning, is in the wrong place. Also all your electronic's should be in the same room. There's little point in trooping off to another room to adjust the volume. While calling out to "her indoors" how's that now.

 

[Danzilla31]

Hi @BMXTRIX,

Thanks for your comments; I do agree that a dedicated space where you go all-out home theatre would be ideal, but unfortunately that's not an option for us. The interior decorator is indeed my wife, and her input and style are important too (and besides, she also has a decent right hook...). We are trying to find a balance between a functional home theatre setup and a comfortable living room space.

As for the projector, I definitely see the benefits of having an acoustically transparent screen but for the same reasons, we decided to go with a large TV, and we are still working on finding the best size and placement for it.

The room isn't in a basement. It's not super clear from the photos, but there is a window in that room, beside the left side surround speaker (which we're going to cover with black-out blinds) - it's actually the first room on the left as you walk in the front door of the house. It might be clearer in the youtube videos:

Room tour part 3

www.youtube.com

Thanks again for your feedback.

Just want to say you really sound like a great guy your patience in this thread is pretty awesome

I 100% don't agree that an open living room setup cannot be done in the way you and your wife are looking for and not be enjoyable.

My first house was the exact same idea it was an open living room actually in some ways much worse then yours and I made it work.

Second house I wanted the theater room to be setup perfect but family opinion held me back but it still came out sounding better then I could have hoped for.

Speakers as @Eppie have mentioned have a cone like dispersion and as long as you can get the angles the way these guys are giving you advice and maybe go down in the speaker count to pull that off like they recommended to get those angles as accurate as possible you should be fine.

Will it sound and look as good as a no compromise room? no but I can tell you from my open room multipurpose compromises it will and can sound pretty damn good. Definetly better then a sound bar.

I know some members are pushing for more on the subs but 4 of those in walls should be okay. A lot of movies have enough content at 30hz or above you should be happy with the results. Will it be as great as sub 20hz or lower no. But keep in mind a lot of movie theaters don't go that low either. Understandable with the price constraints to pull that off for them and understandable for you as well in your setup.

As @Bucknekked said I think this a wonderful challenge for you to take on and I'm confident you can with support from us pull it off.

I'm very interested in how this thread goes. I love threads like this because not all of our members will be able to do no compromise rooms or builds so a build like this that requires a lot of compromises will be more very beneficial to those members in your situation.

Regardless you seem like a great guy and I'm looking forward to getting to know you on this forum.

I'm pressed for time but I will hop back in here later and tell you some things I learned from putting my setups in rooms like yours in the past that might help you

I'm single but I have friends and family that are in beautiful loving relationships. I would never want to see those taken from them and would never as a friend or family member jeopardize that in any way by being less supportive of what they need to compromise on.

No speaker setup is worth that love you guys have for each other. I know we can help you do this in a way that makes both of you happy!

 

[Danzilla31]

Evening all

Just wanted to thank everyone for your input and recommendations throughout this thread. After much consideration and careful planning, I have decided to go with the following 7.4.4 setup:

View attachment 61071

The front left and right speakers are DALI Opticon LCR MK2 On-Wall Speakers, which are mounted so that the bottom edge of the speaker is 95cm (just over 3 feet) above the floor level), and they're slightly closer together than before - the front of the sofa is 8 feet away from the TV wall, so the tweeters of the two front speakers are approx. 8 feet apart also

View attachment 61072.

Instead of rotating a third MK2 for the center, I'm going to setup a DALI Opticon Vokal MK2 Centre Speaker on a floating shelf under the TV. It won't be perfectly in line with the tweeters on the front left and right, but it'll be pretty close.

The TV is now an 85 incher - the width and height are marked out with red tape. The center of the TV does feel quite high up on the wall, but with a slightly higher sofa and some head support, I think it should be fine.

View attachment 61073

There are four in-wall Monitor Audio IWS-10 subwoofers in this room; and they're each going to be installed in an IWB-10 pre-construction back box. The two front subwoofers will face outwards from the TV wall, and the rear two subwoofers will projector perpendicularly across the back of the sofa. The front subwoofers will be as far apart as possible, for a nice even bass and all four subwoofers are going to be positioned as low as physically possible. This setup is going to be powered by an Anthem MRX1140 AVR, which has two subwoofer line-level outputs. Each of those outputs will run to an IWA-250 amplifier. The first IWA-250 will power the front two subs, and the second IWA-250 will power the rear two subs behind the sofa. To avoid messing with the AVR's room correction, the front two subs will have to be on the same amp, and the two rear subs will have to be on the same amp.

For the side surround speakers, I decided to move them down by 1 foot in height (so that the bottom of the speaker is 47 inches/120cm above the floor level). I swapped out the Monitor Audio W280 in-wall speaker for the CP-WT260, as the latter has pre-built back box enclosures, so we can simply cut out the plasterboard and insert the speaker, without giving the carpenters any extra headaches.

For the tricky rear surrounds, first I moved the sofa forward by one foot. So now, the front of the sofa is 8 feet from the TV wall, and there's a little more space between the back of the sofa and the rear speakers. Going with SoundFrame 3 In-Wall for rear surrounds; they're a more compact speaker, and once again, the back box is pre-built. They're also quite a shallow speaker, which is good because the stud of the rear wall is only about 70mm deep. Line up the centre of the Soundframe 3's with the tweeters of the CP-WT260 side surrounds.


View attachment 61074

For Atmos, instead of two overhead speakers, we're going with four C280-IDCs. The front Atmos pair are 1/4 of the way up the length of the room (about 3 feet from the TV wall), and the back Atmos pair are about 3/4 of the way up the room's length (nearly touching the steel girder). Width-wise, everything is line with the front left and right DALIs. The C280-IDCs will use a Hoody 2; won't bother with an in-ceiling back box.

View attachment 61075

View attachment 61076

Thank you again to @gene and everyone who commented for all your help and suggestions; will post pics when I have the cable runs completed and when we start installing speakers in the room.

Cheers!

P.S. just saw your final build idea looking good man!!!! It may not be perfectly angled and optimal but I've found myself in my rooms even then it can sound pretty awesome good luck and I can't wait to see followup pictures

 

[mono-bloc]

I'm very interested in how this thread goes. I love threads like this because not all of our members will be able to do no compromise rooms or builds so a build like this that requires a lot of compromises will be more very beneficial to those members in your situation.

It's a lounge room doubling as a home theatre. Nothing more , nothing less

 

[Danzilla31]

It's a lounge room doubling as a home theatre. Nothing more , nothing less

Which is what a lot of newer members that are new to our hobby who have families will be working with.

Regardless I'm excited period. I love this hobby and I just like to see new audio setups new gear period. Whether I'll be using it or not. This should be fun for the OP. And I get to have fun vicariously through his experience.

Win win for both of us

 

[snakeeyes]

It’s fun to have an everyday system you can enjoy that is compatible with being with your loved ones. My living room has a wood stove and of course more windows than my dedicated 5.1.4 theater room. The angles are not ideal for every speaker in the living room, but it’s a good 5.1 setup with dual subs. This allows for great sound in both rooms that I spend time in.

Outside on the back patio or when I travel, I just use my JBL Bluetooth speaker and my iPhone. LOL