Pit Viper 3-way Paul Carmody

M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
A new one from him. If anyone ever needed to do a 3-way, it had to be Paul Carmody. Why? Because he most accurately describes the expected performance from his designs. From there, "I" have been left with the thought that perhaps he understates his abilities in which to build great speakers to listen to. When I don't want to fiddle or fuss, and just want to listen to Van Halen and Def Leppard and Molly Hatchet (and just about everything else in that category), I know I can use either one of the two I have built of his and just set it and forget it.

I'm so frick'n tempted to build this speaker. I am still sitting on all the parts of the "Tarkus" design as it is. Have been waiting on plywood prices to become less insane.

Anyway, it's a heck of a dilemma for someone who digs a good old monkey coffin design to rock out with.

 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I like, but really don't need more speakers at this point....and have the ply already too.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
A new one from him. If anyone ever needed to do a 3-way, it had to be Paul Carmody. Why? Because he most accurately describes the expected performance from his designs. From there, "I" have been left with the thought that perhaps he understates his abilities in which to build great speakers to listen to. When I don't want to fiddle or fuss, and just want to listen to Van Halen and Def Leppard and Molly Hatchet (and just about everything else in that category), I know I can use either one of the two I have built of his and just set it and forget it.

I'm so frick'n tempted to build this speaker. I am still sitting on all the parts of the "Tarkus" design as it is. Have been waiting on plywood prices to become less insane.

Anyway, it's a heck of a dilemma for someone who digs a good old monkey coffin design to rock out with.

There are too many good speaker designs out there to spend time with something that the designer has admitted that he doesn't care much about. You might as buy a used Klipsch speaker if you just want loud and don't care about how it sounds.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
I am still sitting on all the parts of the "Tarkus" design as it is.
This is the way.

We talked about the Peerless SLS 830668 10" driver in the Tarkus being what Dennis uses in the revised MBOW1 3-way design but in a sealed cabinet instead of the ported design in the Tarkus. Who knows? Maybe the ported cab is better suited to the Peerless SLS 830668 10".

I think the monkey coffin thing is like the cheap speaker thing. It's cool at first but after living with it you must come to the realization of 'hey, this is cheap' or 'hey, this is huge'. I feel like I'm trying to talk somebody out of Cerwin Vega speakers. I don't know, my 10 inches of slam in the MBOW1 3-ways isn't convenient either. But at least it's only 12" wide instead of 15".
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
There are too many good speaker designs out there to spend time with something that the designer has admitted that he doesn't care much about. You might as buy a used Klipsch speaker if you just want loud and don't care about how it sounds.
I'll reread his notes. I don't remember the part about him not caring for how it sounds.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
This is the way.

We talked about the Peerless SLS 830668 10" driver in the Tarkus being what Dennis uses in the revised MBOW1 3-way design but in a sealed cabinet instead of the ported design in the Tarkus. Who knows? Maybe the ported cab is better suited to the Peerless SLS 830668 10".

I think the monkey coffin thing is like the cheap speaker thing. It's cool at first but after living with it you must come to the realization of 'hey, this is cheap' or 'hey, this is huge'. I feel like I'm trying to talk somebody out of Cerwin Vega speakers. I don't know, my 10 inches of slam in the MBOW1 3-ways isn't convenient either. But at least it's only 12" wide instead of 15".
I already have great speakers. I also have some mid-fi types. With hard rock and pop, the mid-fi full-range types are the least fussy. Set and forget. Some days, you just don't want to care or be critical of what you are hearing. The Classix2? The tweeter is marvelous for rock thru jazz and Eva Cassidy just melts the paint off the walls thru them. The woofer is just enough somehow. How? I also have the Speedsters by him. Just as a novelty. I am not a fan of tiny woofer'd bookshelf types otherwise. Still, they sound pretty good, even at their limit.

This had nothing to do with any hopes of a high-end speaker. All I really needed was relatively low distortion at 85-90db. I can usually fix the rest. Still, I just saw it. Haven't really had a full on look at the drivers or the cabinet.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
I like, but really don't need more speakers at this point....and have the ply already too.
I have too many too and I listen to most of them, so it holds me back. I have room now with all the kids gone. I have no compulsion to keep model bedrooms with nobody in them otherwise, so I don't mind stashing my extra speakers in at least one of those rooms.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I have too many too and I listen to most of them, so it holds me back. I have room now with all the kids gone. I have no compulsion to keep model bedrooms with nobody in them otherwise, so I don't mind stashing my extra speakers in at least one of those rooms.
Yeah no kids here and my old gear goes into the various rooms, including spare bedrooms....five systems now, four multich.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
A new one from him. If anyone ever needed to do a 3-way, it had to be Paul Carmody. Why? Because he most accurately describes the expected performance from his designs. From there, "I" have been left with the thought that perhaps he understates his abilities in which to build great speakers to listen to. When I don't want to fiddle or fuss, and just want to listen to Van Halen and Def Leppard and Molly Hatchet (and just about everything else in that category), I know I can use either one of the two I have built of his and just set it and forget it.

I'm so frick'n tempted to build this speaker. I am still sitting on all the parts of the "Tarkus" design as it is. Have been waiting on plywood prices to become less insane.

Anyway, it's a heck of a dilemma for someone who digs a good old monkey coffin design to rock out with.

I looked at his site. I was not impressed. No hard data, no crossover circuit and no means to model and check that design. I would certainly not recommend embarking on that design without much more information.

The Tarkus has more data. The F3 is around 45 Hz and the tuning does not look correct. There is only one large peak of impedance, not a saddle as there should be. There is a panel resonance at 200 Hz. Apart from the bass tuning the FR looks pretty good on axis anyway. Crossover points appear to be 400 Hz and 2KHz.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
I looked at his site. I was not impressed. No hard data, no crossover circuit and no means to model and check that design. I would certainly not recommend embarking on that design without much more information.

The Tarkus has more data. The F3 is around 45 Hz and the tuning does not look correct. There is only one large peak of impedance, not a saddle as there should be. There is a panel resonance at 200 Hz. Apart from the bass tuning the FR looks pretty good on axis anyway. Crossover points appear to be 400 Hz and 2KHz.
While I can totally agree with you and respect/appreciate your knowledge on this subject, there is still more to audio life than perfectionism and correctness. Most people seem to never get over it or can ever be satisfied, regardless. I have tried it your way. It's just another way, right as it may be.

I am aware of much better speakers and have built perhaps 10 notable designs by various known designers about the DIY realm. What is curious about all that being, so many of the higher end offerings still have their share of dissatisfied customers after the fact. Two designs I have by Paul Carmody are more pleasing to listen to than they ought to be. One being the "Classix2" two-way bookshelf, and his "Speedster" design. I think his past designs have been scrutinized by the DIY folks that obsess about such things for years now. I chose these designs because they really didn't need a whole lot of fuss to do what was expected. No protractors or lasers to set them up, and no room treatments.

Every well touted design still has it's compromises somewhere. God help the poor bastards that can hear the dips, humps and quirks and then confirm by obsessive measuring, only to have their room eff it all right up anyway. Or worse yet, have a reviewer pick something apart, only to discover that they listen to some really weird music that doesn't sound good to me, no matter the speakers.

One thing that almost nobody considers these days? That there might be someone who actually likes to "hear" the actual speakers up close and can't be bothered with the room or on/off axis, and this ridiculous notion of realism. I wasted so much time in the past trying to get a *room* to sound right. It never completely does unless it is carefully designed for it and loads of EQ that I rarely agree with. Meanwhile, I have a $4k pair of speakers that are at the mercy of my room more than anything else.

Right now, I can reach out and touch the speakers from either side of where I am sitting. 8", 3-way JBL studio monitors with a freq response of 45-20khz. They are basically mid-fi speakers that really punch and don't distort easily. With a stated power handling capability of 175 WRMS and a sensitivity of 89db, I am nowhere near these speakers fault range with regard to audible (60 yr old) distortion. I had no idea just how good they could sound until I got up on them. It's all wrong, but an absolutely glorious listening experience up close. What do I like most about these budget speakers? The polyplas drivers. JBL really hit it out of the park with this material for the budget world and they have been using it for years by now. This is not the first time a budget pair of JBL has lured me in with these drivers.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
I looked at his site. I was not impressed. No hard data, no crossover circuit and no means to model and check that design. I would certainly not recommend embarking on that design without much more information.

The Tarkus has more data. The F3 is around 45 Hz and the tuning does not look correct. There is only one large peak of impedance, not a saddle as there should be. There is a panel resonance at 200 Hz. Apart from the bass tuning the FR looks pretty good on axis anyway. Crossover points appear to be 400 Hz and 2KHz.
Crossover design posted here. Interested to hear your take, even though I can guess what that might be.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Paul
I looked at his site. I was not impressed. No hard data, no crossover circuit and no means to model and check that design. I would certainly not recommend embarking on that design without much more information.

The Tarkus has more data. The F3 is around 45 Hz and the tuning does not look correct. There is only one large peak of impedance, not a saddle as there should be. There is a panel resonance at 200 Hz. Apart from the bass tuning the FR looks pretty good on axis anyway. Crossover points appear to be 400 Hz and 2KHz.
Paul is a good speaker designer and very accessible, if something is missing or not where you've looked, he will be happy to assist. Years ago his name came up in a discussion with Jeff Bagby and it was nothing but praise. He usually follows tried and true speaker building principals and while not a 40 year veteran, his work has drawn praise from those that are. I only expect nothing but better and better designs from him moving forward.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
Paul

Paul is a good speaker designer and very accessible, if something is missing or not where you've looked, he will be happy to assist. Years ago his name came up in a discussion with Jeff Bagby and it was nothing but praise. He usually follows tried and true speaker building principals and while not a 40 year veteran, his work has drawn praise from those that are. I only expect nothing but better and better designs from him moving forward.
I notice that whenever I post a design I built by him on speaker build pages, I get a nod of approval from all of the current top DIY rock stars. What I like about his designs is that they don't pretend to be something they're not. I think I paid $165 for the Classix2 kit that was just drivers, hardware and crossover parts. I really had no high hopes for them and figured to give them away. I built them and did not really give them fair time for about a year. I had built more expensive speakers so I was above these cheapies.

One day, I set them up on my kitchen table to try out my new Icepower amp build. Well heck, they sounded fine and something about them hooked me into a lengthy session. Def Leppard, Boston, VH and Judas Priest etc. Now I have to be careful because I have them in my bedroom and if I start with them, I will stay in bed way too long and be late for the day. Eddie Van Halen once described his tone as the "brown sound." Boston has it too, and some others. That intentional distortion added to electric music. These Classix2s are my "brown sound" speakers. That's how I would describe their voice.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
There are too many good speaker designs out there to spend time with something that the designer has admitted that he doesn't care much about. You might as buy a used Klipsch speaker if you just want loud and don't care about how it sounds.
I could not find anything other than some apprehensiveness perhaps with regard to designing party speakers. I had been asking for a potent 3-way for years. It seemed to me that he heard me. I would have liked a 15" design. 15" paper woofer is the closest I have gotten to "life sized" sound. That size is my overall sweet spot for displacement.

I quote: "So, in spite of the fact that I've purposely avoided Monkey Coffins ever since I started in this hobby, I'm so glad I took the plunge to make this design. Despite the fact that I still sometimes find the design a bit goofy and over the top, I would be more than happy to keep a pair of these in my listening room for years of enjoyment!"
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
I like, but really don't need more speakers at this point....and have the ply already too.
It was never about "need" more than just another audio trip to take. Some people collect toys, coins, antiques and everything imaginable. Mine is speakers and fishing rods. I am not very social anymore and even less so since covid. I don't expect much company dropping by. Those that do, half expect me to have a project ongoing as part of my decor. Half the time I just want to build something and do some furniture grade veneer and finish work. I have around 9 types of veneer I have collected over the years. I have such a good time with all of this.

I expect my sons may find the time to get into audio when they get older. Maybe just for having to deal with all of my speakers when I kick off. Or maybe my grandkids. My youngest grandson was always drawn into the music and would park on the sofa and just listen.
 
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