Pioneer VSX-1016TVX vs. Yamaha RX-V659

[jlyttle]

These seem to be the two favorite lower cost receivers and I am down to one of them as my choice. I know that the Pioneer has HDMI passthrough and the Yamaha does not, but do I care? I have read that the HDMI passthrough is for video only, so components for audio are also needed. If I have an HDMI upconverting DVD player running straight to the TV, what is the difference between running it also through the receiver if i need to run components to the TV anyway. I guess I am confused as to how this should be wired. What will be the best and easiest bet when connecting my DVD and receiver to the TV for watching movies?

 

[Seth=L]

The switching would only be usefull if you had more than one HDMI source.

Equalitys-
The both have auto-setup and are 7.1 receivers. Both have pre-outs for future upgrades. The have the same # of component video inputs and digital inputs. Both have the same basic decoding functions.

Yamaha's Advantages-
It has Zone 2 capabilities (presence can be used to power Zone 2), phono input, more analog composite, RCA stereo, and S-video connections. More DSP modes and widely viewed as having superior DSP modes, A-B speaker operations, Yamaha's presence channels for it's DSP modes.

Pioneer's Advantages-
THX Select certified and THX modes, slightly more powerful (not overwhelming or maybe not even noticable), and many think that it looks better than the Yamaha.

I think I have swayed myself to like the Yamaha more based on these findings, and I was so sure the Pioneer was the best pick. My vote, go for the Yammy.

 

[jlyttle]

So, if both of my only 2 sources (digital cable and DVD) have HDMI out, I want the Pioneer because the TV only has 1 HDMI in, correct?

 

[jlyttle]

So, if both of my only 2 sources (digital cable and DVD) have HDMI out, I want the Pioneer because the TV only has 1 HDMI in, correct?

Assuming that I have a TV with 1 HDMI input, and both my cable box and DVD player both have HDMI out, what is the proper way to wire with the Yamaha, and then the Pioneer?

My goal is to have something that is easy to use without short-changing myself.

 

[Seth=L]

Assuming that I have a TV with 1 HDMI input, and both my cable box and DVD player both have HDMI out, what is the proper way to wire with the Yamaha, and then the Pioneer?

My goal is to have something that is easy to use without short-changing myself.

If you have no way of switching them, other than doing it manually then you probably should get the Pioneer. It is only pass-through as you noted before, maybe look at the Onkyo TX-SR604, I believe it has HDMI upconversion and audio.

 

[Seth=L]

If you have no way of switching them, other than doing it manually then you probably should get the Pioneer. It is only pass-through as you noted before, maybe look at the Onkyo TX-SR604, I believe it has HDMI upconversion and audio.

OK the Onkyo does not upconvert, but you said that wasn't a feature you required. It does have HDMI version 1.1 and it does audio. I think that it would even do multichannel LPCM. I will check the price on the 604 and other features and get back to you.

 

[Seth=L]

OK, the Onkyo TX-SR604 I found for $350 before shipping just looking at the google search. It has an Auto setup, two HDMI inputs, has the same digital inputs as the other receivers considered, but lacks preouts for all channels. It does have preouts for Zone 2, as well as powered zone two if not using max of 5.1. It isn't quite as powerful as the others, but once again not noticably. Onkyo has a very good user interface so that is a plus. Sound can be a tad cold and straight forward due to it's preamp section. DO NOT BUY THE TX-SR674, it does not offer much more for the money and still lacks preouts. They have almost the same inputs and outputs, if not the same, and an irrelavent increase in wattage (5 watts per channel).

I think the Onkyo is the best deal of these receivers.

 

[jlyttle]

Let me first say thank you for the assistance, I am a complete novice with this equipment and am almost lost on my own.

The DVD player that I am buying does upconversion on it's own, so is it correct that the receiver need not do this for me?

Another area of confusion for me is how the audio signal will get to the TV from the DVD (which will also be my CD player). Will I connect it's HDMI to the TV and components to the receiver and from there to the TV? I almost feel like I need a diagram lol.

It looks like I may be leaning towards the Pioneer. If so, what is the correct way to wire the 4 pieces of equipment together? (HDMI from both DVD and cable box, along with the receiver and the TV)

Lastly (for now), if I chose the Yamaha what would be the proper way to connect everything and what am I really losing by not having HDMI in the receiver? Will it not sound or look as good? The only reason that I am not %100 for the Pioneer is how highly regarded that Yamaha unit is. But as I said, I do not want to short change myself.

Thanks again, I am frustrated by my lack of knowledge in this area.

 

[MDS]

The DVD player that I am buying does upconversion on it's own, so is it correct that the receiver need not do this for me?

Yes, and the DVD player need not do it either - the TV will do the scaling. [In this context 'upconversion' means scaling like 480p -> 720p].

Another area of confusion for me is how the audio signal will get to the TV from the DVD (which will also be my CD player).

You don't need to get audio to the TV. If you have a receiver, you will connect speakers to the receiver and it will send the audio to the speakers.

It looks like I may be leaning towards the Pioneer. If so, what is the correct way to wire the 4 pieces of equipment together? (HDMI from both DVD and cable box, along with the receiver and the TV)

If all the devices have HDMI, then you connect the DVD player and Cable Box via HDMI to the receiver and HDMI from the receiver to the TV. That may not work with the cable box and you may have to have an additional digital audio cable from the cable box to the receiver.

Lastly (for now), if I chose the Yamaha what would be the proper way to connect everything and what am I really losing by not having HDMI in the receiver? Will it not sound or look as good? The only reason that I am not %100 for the Pioneer is how highly regarded that Yamaha unit is. But as I said, I do not want to short change myself.

Without HDMI, you lose the headaches of trying to make it all work properly.

Hookup is the same, just different cables. You would use component video cables from the DVD player and Cable Box to the receiver for video and digital audio cables (either optical or coax - whichever the dvd player/cable box have) to the receiver for audio. Then component video cables from the receiver to the TV to get the video to the TV. Audio goes straight to the speakers from the receiver.

By the way, the Onkyo 674 adds HDMI upconversion from the analog video formats (like component video) so you could use component video from the dvd player or cable box to the receiver but HDMI to the TV from the receiver. Other than that one feature, it is identical to the 604 as Seth said.

 

[speakerman39]

The switching would only be usefull if you had more than one HDMI source.

Equalitys-
The both have auto-setup and are 7.1 receivers. Both have pre-outs for future upgrades. The have the same # of component video inputs and digital inputs. Both have the same basic decoding functions.

Yamaha's Advantages-
It has Zone 2 capabilities (presence can be used to power Zone 2), phono input, more analog composite, RCA stereo, and S-video connections. More DSP modes and widely viewed as having superior DSP modes, A-B speaker operations, Yamaha's presence channels for it's DSP modes.

Pioneer's Advantages-
THX Select certified and THX modes, slightly more powerful (not overwhelming or maybe not even noticable), and many think that it looks better than the Yamaha.

I think I have swayed myself to like the Yamaha more based on these findings, and I was so sure the Pioneer was the best pick. My vote, go for the Yammy.

Hey Seth, I noticed the Yammie also has burr-brown dacs whereas the 1016 doesn't. I am sure you are aware that the burr-brown dacs usually provide for better sq and is usually found in more expensive gear. No big deal really, just noticed that about the Yammie which kind of surprised me given the price.

 

[angstadt530]

By the way, the Onkyo 674 adds HDMI upconversion from the analog video formats (like component video) so you could use component video from the dvd player or cable box to the receiver but HDMI to the TV from the receiver. Other than that one feature, it is identical to the 604 as Seth said.

...I was thinking the same thing. Onkyo makes solid receivers that are decently priced. If you need the upconversion, the 674 would be a great option, but if your only components are DVD and cable, the 604 would work just as well. It is also compatable with 1080p, so it won't seem outdated anytime soon.

The other option would be to get an HDMI switcher for your TV, buy a cheaper receiver (like the Pioneer 816), and then just run optical audio cables from your components to your receiver. It's a little more complicated of a setup, but it might save a few bucks. (I'd still go with the 604 or 674, though.)

 

[Seth=L]

Burr-brown dacs doesn't make any garrantee of sound quality, it is more about integration of circuits. Those dacs are probably burr-brown's bottom line, nothing to drool about. It is rather irrelavent.

The 604 is the best option I see, for price and function. If you get the Pioneer it will not do audio over HDMI, the Onkyo will. That is good especially if you get a Blu-Ray (PS3) or HD-DVD player which have can utilize the HDMI brandwidth to get high resolution surround sound in multi-channel LPCM.

 

[zoran]

Burr-brown dacs doesn't make any garrantee of sound quality, it is more about integration of circuits. Those dacs are probably burr-brown's bottom line, nothing to drool about. It is rather irrelavent.

The 604 is the best option I see, for price and function. If you get the Pioneer it will not do audio over HDMI, the Onkyo will. That is good especially if you get a Blu-Ray (PS3) or HD-DVD player which have can utilize the HDMI brandwidth to get high resolution surround sound in multi-channel LPCM.

but price difference is almost twice for onkyo?

 

[speakerman39]

Burr-brown dacs doesn't make any garrantee of sound quality, it is more about integration of circuits. Those dacs are probably burr-brown's bottom line, nothing to drool about. It is rather irrelavent.

The 604 is the best option I see, for price and function. If you get the Pioneer it will not do audio over HDMI, the Onkyo will. That is good especially if you get a Blu-Ray (PS3) or HD-DVD player which have can utilize the HDMI brandwidth to get high resolution surround sound in multi-channel LPCM.

My point was that burr-brown dacs are not usually found in a receiver at the price point of the Yammie 659. In fact, I do believe that Yamaha is the ONLY manufacturer that offers them at that price point. I am not aware of any other brand that does. Burr-browns dacs are usally assoiciated with components that do offer better sq from what I have seen. Of course, they also cost more as well.

 

[Seth=L]

but price difference is almost twice for onkyo?

The Onkyo can be had for $350 in some places, averages $400. I don't think the 659 is only $200.

 

[jcPanny]

HDMI switch

I think the Yamaha RX-V659 is in the $3-350 price range. If you want to order online, also look for the comparable HTR-5960.

If you go with the Yamaha, you can always pick up an HDMI switch from monoprice. They have a manual one for $30 or a 5x1 auto one for just over $100. AH did an extensive review on the AUDIO capabilities of the RX-V659.

 

[jlyttle]

Burr-brown dacs doesn't make any garrantee of sound quality, it is more about integration of circuits. Those dacs are probably burr-brown's bottom line, nothing to drool about. It is rather irrelavent.

The 604 is the best option I see, for price and function. If you get the Pioneer it will not do audio over HDMI, the Onkyo will. That is good especially if you get a Blu-Ray (PS3) or HD-DVD player which have can utilize the HDMI brandwidth to get high resolution surround sound in multi-channel LPCM.

This looks promising, I may order as early as tonight, I just ordered my HSU VTF2 MK3 subwoofer. Things are coming together.

If I get the Onkyo, I need to go HDMI from the cable box and the DVD player, then HDMI from the receiver to the TV and that it, right?

 

[desmo900rider]

Hey Seth, I noticed the Yammie also has burr-brown dacs whereas the 1016 doesn't. I am sure you are aware that the burr-brown dacs usually provide for better sq and is usually found in more expensive gear. No big deal really, just noticed that about the Yammie which kind of surprised me given the price.

Not to thread jack, but how did you find out that the Yamaha has burr-brown DACs? The reason I ask is that I am looking at 2 different Yamaha receivers, the 659 and also the 1500, and I would like to know if the 1500 has the same DACs as the 659...

Thanks!

 

[billy p]

This looks promising, I may order as early as tonight, I just ordered my HSU VTF2 MK3 subwoofer. Things are coming together.

If I get the Onkyo, I need to go HDMI from the cable box and the DVD player, then HDMI from the receiver to the TV and that it, right?

Nice call on the sub. Your decision on the avr should depend on your components and how you want to utilize them? IMO if your avr allows for multi hdmi connection then route your dvd player & cable box to receiver via hdmi and then from receiver to tv. If it lacks sufficient hdmi then route dvd player or cable box to tv or get a hdmi switcher.

Otherwise, Good luck and enjoy: Billy p

 

[jlyttle]

Nice call on the sub. Your decision on the avr should depend on your components and how you want to utilize them? IMO if your avr allows for multi hdmi connection then route your dvd player & cable box to receiver via hdmi and then from receiver to tv. If it lacks sufficient hdmi then route dvd player or cable box to tv or get a hdmi switcher.

Otherwise, Good luck and enjoy: Billy p

Yeah, based on price, recommendations and my equipment that is the way I will go, with the Onkyo. Plus, it is available in silver to match my TV and cable box.

Looks like I need to order some HDMI cables, who is a good cheap source?

Not yet final on speaker picks, but as of now looks like Axiom M3Ti's for the fronts, an Axiom VP100 center (all in light maple), and Polk RC60i's for my in-wall rears. I got the HSU sub in their nice light maple finish.

This sounds like everything that I need I think.