Pioneer Speakers

[ahblaza]

Hello,
Anybody using the Pioneer Sp-BS41LR bookshelves or the SP-FS51-LR towers and SP-C21 center. There is a big thread @ AVS with excellent and positive reviews with this speakers, prices: BS41 $149 the pair, FS51 $200 and C21 center $80. I am very tempted to try these out, they could be had direct from Pioneer for 30 day guarantee and free shipping. I'm right on the fence of getting the Ascends 340SE's, three upfront and 170's for surrounds. After spending hours reading reviews of the Pioneer's on Stereophile and Home Theater and AVS I don't know what to do. I am open for suggestion and anybody's thoughts on both the Pioneers and the Ascends. Thanks guys, I look forward to your replies.
PS. I can get the PSB B6's and C5 center for $736 delivered, obviously I'm looking to get monitors. PLEASE HELP.
Jeff

 

[jonnythan]

I listened to them and wasn't impressed.

Best Buy carries them. You could buy them from there and try them out in your living room, then return them if you don't like them.

 

[ahblaza]

I listened to them and wasn't impressed.

Best Buy carries them. You could buy them from there and try them out in your living room, then return them if you don't like them.

Thanks jonn, first negative impression, I'm sure there are more

 

[zieglj01]

It is not easy for some one to decide for you - If you have the money,
then aim higher than the Pionner. The Pioneer is good for people on a
tight budget - however, they can not keep up with the PSB Image series.

"PS. I can get the PSB B6's and C5 center for $736 delivered, obviously I'm looking to get monitors. PLEASE HELP."

 

[ahblaza]

It is not easy for some one to decide for you - If you have the money,
then aim higher than the Pionner. The Pioneer is good for people on a
tight budget - however, they can not keep up with the PSB Image series.

"PS. I can get the PSB B6's and C5 center for $736 delivered, obviously I'm looking to get monitors. PLEASE HELP."

Zieg, Thanks buddy for putting it that way, I can afford the Image speakers, I have been saving just to purchase something in the higher end, I kind of lost my head for a minute, my source components deserve something more than the Pioneers, thanks for the reality check.
Jeff

 

[MikeLeone]

Hello,
Anybody using the Pioneer Sp-BS41LR bookshelves or the SP-FS51-LR towers and SP-C21 center. There is a big thread @ AVS with excellent and positive reviews with this speakers, prices: BS41 $149 the pair, FS51 $200 and C21 center $80. I am very tempted to try these out, they could be had direct from Pioneer for 30 day guarantee and free shipping. I'm right on the fence of getting the Ascends 340SE's, three upfront and 170's for surrounds. After spending hours reading reviews of the Pioneer's on Stereophile and Home Theater and AVS I don't know what to do. I am open for suggestion and anybody's thoughts on both the Pioneers and the Ascends. Thanks guys, I look forward to your replies.
PS. I can get the PSB B6's and C5 center for $736 delivered, obviously I'm looking to get monitors. PLEASE HELP.
Jeff

I just bought them online, after listening to the BS21s at Best Buy. Waiting on delivery. There was no free shipping from Pioneer online, tho.

I got 2 pairs of the BS41s as front and surrounds, and the C21 as center. I also bought an Outlaw Audio M8 as subwoofer.

 

[MikeLeone]

I listened to them and wasn't impressed.

Best Buy carries them. You could buy them from there and try them out in your living room, then return them if you don't like them.

BestBuy doesn't carry the BS41s, only the smaller BS21s. You have to buy the BS41s online, as I did.

 

[jonnythan]

I was actually talking about the FS51, which they also carry. They sounded, unsurprisingly, very similar to the BS21.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think the Infinity P163 ($85 ea) measures better than the little Pioneer.

The NHT Absolute Zero measures a lot better, but they also cost $200 each.

The Absolute Zero’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +0.94/–0.82 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 83 Hz...
http://www.hometheater.com/content/nht-absolute-zero-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

The KEF Q100 bookshelf speaker also measure better than the Pioneer:

The Q100’s listening-window response measures +1.90/–2.20 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The –3-dB point is at 49 Hz...

http://www.hometheater.com/content/kef-q900-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

The Q100s cost $300/pr:
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/KEFQ100CHY/KEF-Q100-Q-Series-5-1/4-inch-Cherry-Bookshelf-Speakers-pair/1.html

 

[jonnythan]

You seem to keep using the word "measure" to mean simply "anechoic frequency response." There's a lot more to a speaker's "measurements" than just FR.

 

[MikeLeone]

I was actually talking about the FS51, which they also carry. They sounded, unsurprisingly, very similar to the BS21.

Ah, my mistake, then. Yes, they do. I listened to both, and some Bose and Polk and some other brands they carry. Some of the BB stores have a room set up with all the speakers they carry, so you can try them out, while many other of their stores do not (I know of 1 in my area that has one - the one I went to - and at least 3 that do not).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You seem to keep using the word "measure" to mean simply "anechoic frequency response." There's a lot more to a speaker's "measurements" than just FR.

They are not even anechoic frequency responses.

I'm comparing reviews from Home Theater Magazine, so what other "measurements" do you want to compare from Home Theater Magazine?

 

[jonnythan]

Oh, well, nevermind. I guess that frequency response graphs from HTM are all the "measurements" that matter.

Please, continue to say that some speakers "measure better" than others based on a single graph.

 

[Adam]

 

[jonnythan]

Oh come on. My glasses have frames.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Oh, well, nevermind. I guess that frequency response graphs from HTM are all the "measurements" that matter.

Please, continue to say that some speakers "measure better" than others based on a single graph.

Yeah, since Stereophile and Soundstage have every single speaker measurements of all the speakers out there, let me go and pull them up for discussion.

 

[jonnythan]

Yeah, since Stereophile and Soundstage have every single speaker measurements of all the speakers out there, let me go and pull them up for discussion.

Sarcasm aside, I'd venture to say that if all you have to compare between two speakers is the FR graph, you might not have enough information to determine which "measures better."

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sarcasm aside, I'd venture to say that if all you have to compare between two speakers is the FR graph, you might not have enough information to determine which "measures better."

Agree.

But.....having a single on-axis FR measurement is better than having nothing to compare them at all, right?

Most of us have never auditioned all these speakers and compared all of these speakers side by side.

Often times a single snapshot of their FR is all we have to go by.

But I think most people would agree that although cabinet resonance, power response, phase response, and other measurements are important, the 2 most important measurements are the 60-degrees off-axis polar response and the on-axis frequency response.

Some people, I believe Gene included, don't place as much importance on cabinet resonance and other measurements as polar response and FR.

How would you rank the individual measurements in terms of importance?

In other words, if you have never heard 2 speakers in your life, but speaker A has a much better on-axis FR and much better off-axis FR, and speaker B has much less cabinet resonance than speaker A, which speaker would you estimate to sound better?

 

[jonnythan]

It's certainly better than nothing, but I just get peeved when you say that speaker x measures better than speaker y and is therefore a better speaker, even though your only measurement is a single FR graph. We both know there's a lot more to how good a speaker is or sounds than a medium-volume frequency response graph.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It's certainly better than nothing, but I just get peeved when you say that speaker x measures better than speaker y and is therefore a better speaker, even though your only measurement is a single FR graph. We both know there's a lot more to how good a speaker is or sounds than a medium-volume frequency response graph.

I see it like an exam question. You have to pick some speakers based on the limited information you have.

Now if all these speakers were measured by John Atkinson @ Stereophile, and I choose to completely ignore all the other measurements, then I see your point.

So basically, all I'm saying is that BASED on the limited information I have, this is my limited conclusion as to which speaker is better.