Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH owners, chime in

[smithquake]

I am looking at replacing my Marantz SR7200 with dead DTS decoder with an Elite VSX-21TXH. There are a few threads related to the 21, but not much input from owners of this model: also I can't locate any Bench Test Reports.

If you own an Elite 21 or 23, please help me decide:

How long have you had it?
What do you like/love/dislike/hate?
Anyone driving 4 ohm fronts straight from the AVR? Any problems/overloads?
Does it run hot?
Does iPod functionality work as good as Pio claims?
Anyone using it with a Logitech Harmony One remote? Any problems?
Anyone found any test reports?

I'm going to run in 5.1 or 6.1 cause my room is not suitable for 2 surrounds and 2 rears: Iv'e got TV, Cable Box/DVR, DVD, Xbox 360 with HDMI, CD Jukebox using both optical out & analog out (for 2nd zone), 2 chan amp for
2nd zone, Polk Center, Surrounds & Sub, & ancient RTR-240D tower fronts (the 4 ohm problem, but I still love them after 30 years ). I love the Blues, but I can't run over -25dB volume (unless the wife is gone ).

Thanks for the help.

 

[Tungsten06GT]

Well I've had my 21txh for about 3 weeks now. Buuuuuttttt, I have nothing hooked up to it! Sorry, I am little if not any help, but I am currently waiting on the 5.0 set of EMP Impression speakers so I won't really know how it performs probably for another couple weeks.

All I can say is that based upon the research I did, most all owners love the receiver. I was sold due to the beefy amplifier, pre-outs, and ipod connectivity (all of which I have yet to use). I would say it's a middle range receiver, but probably toward the higher end of the range. We'll see.

Hopefully some other owners can chime in because I wanna know what to expect!

 

[Adam]

Hi. I have a VSX-23, and my friend has a VSX-21 (I'll see if I can get him to post here, too). I have some answers for you.

How long have you had it?

I've had mine since they became available in August.

What do you like/love/dislike/hate?

Like/Love

• HDMI connections (never had them before)
• SACD and DVD-A multichannel decoding over HDMI
• Phase Control
• MCACC performance
• Pre-amp outputs and 12V triggers

Dislike

• Takes about five seconds to lock onto an HDMI source when I change inputs on my TV
• Sometimes the receiver won't turn on from the remote, and I have to push the power button on the unit itself
• Remote control isn't learning (like the one for my 1015 is), and can't change surround modes using remote without selecting the "Receiver" controls (so can't control surround modes and disc player functions without pushing extra buttons). These annoy me because they are a step down from the remote control on my non-Elite VSX-1015.

Anyone driving 4 ohm fronts straight from the AVR? Any problems/overloads?

I'm not using 4-Ohms speakers.

Does it run hot?

Mine doesn't. I don't use the internal amplifiers. I didn't use the internal amps on my VSX-1015 used previously, either, but the 1015 still ran quite hot. The VSX-23 is nice and cool.

Does iPod functionality work as good as Pio claims?

I've never tried it, but my friend has.

 

[smithquake]

4 ohm fronts

Adam,

What are your thoughts on running 4 ohm fronts from the 21 or 23 (same amp section I think)?

Since it carries a THX select2 cert, doesn't that mean it must test stable with 4 ohm fronts? I rarely go over -20dB

 

[Adam]

Adam,

What are your thoughts on running 4 ohm fronts from the 21 or 23 (same amp section I think)?

Since it carries a THX select2 cert, doesn't that mean it must test stable with 4 ohm fronts? I rarely go over -20dB

I've read the same thing regarding THX certification on this forum over the past week. I just went to the THX site and looked around briefly, but I didn't find the requirements for certification. So, I guess that I don't have any concrete opinion. The manual states 6 Ohms, so I'd say get some more opinions.

 

[smithquake]

Adam,

FYI; I found this re: THX cert.

"Amplifier Specs that are much tougher than on non-THX certified gear; these include the ability to drive low impedance (3.2Ohms) speakers while still producing a volume level of 105dB".

Here is the source link:...hmm can't post the link since I am an audiophyte: it is here
practical-home-theater-guide.com/thx-home-cinema.html

 

[smithquake]

Found some more THX stuff:

"THX Select vs. Ultra

In 1999, THX launched THX Select, and renamed what had previously been called just THX to THX Ultra.

Whereas THX/THX Ultra was specified and designed for rooms "up to" 3000 ft3, THX Select took that requirement down to 2000 ft3. Both the requirements of the amplification and the output of the speakers were scaled back appropriately, placing THX in the hands of a whole new audience who could not have otherwise afforded it.

When it comes to amplification, continuous output tests are run on up to one, four, and five channels (simultaneously) of an Ultra product, but only one at a time on Select. With all products, the dynamic amplifier tests are done on up to all available channels. Ultra amplifiers must be stable on all channels to 3.2 ohms and swing an 18A peak, while Select products must be stable into 4 ohms (front channel) and 8 ohms (surrounds), and swing peaks of 12.5A and 6.2A respectively.

So, right off the bat, Select amplifiers have a lower bar to reach, but ultimately in meeting it, they will still cleanly drive any reasonably designed speaker to reference level in a Select-size room. What we are talking about here is the idea that the lower powered equipment can get a THX certification that will assure consumers that the really affordable stuff has met certain standards like the high-end equipment."

here is source link: hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles/165-what-it-means-and-how-to-use-it.html?showall=1

Here is another by Pio on their class D's: pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/THX%20and%20Power%20Amplifiers_final.pdf

Thats it for me; I'm going with a 21 or 23: price will determine choice.

 

[myke]

I would agree with the post above about pushing the receiver button first. I had to look at the manual to figure out how to operate the modes where you have to push the receiver button first.

Also, you should be fine running 4ohm speakers I would think. The amp comes preset to 8ohms, but there is a setting where you can select the amp to run 6ohms.

 

[bandphan]

The amp comes preset to 8ohms, but there is a setting where you can select the amp to run 6ohms.

You will want to keep the OHM selector at the 8ohm setting even with 4ohm speakers. The selector will lower the rail voltage and will allow the speakers to clip sooner.

 

[myke]

You will want to keep the OHM selector at the 8ohm setting even with 4ohm speakers. The selector will lower the rail voltage and will allow the speakers to clip sooner.

Oh really? I would think it would be the other way around?

What about my speakers. I am running the EMP E5ti towers and center that are 6 ohms. Should I leave it at 8? I would think you would want it to be closer to the actual impedance, but I am not techie when it comes to power handling etc.

 

[bandphan]

Oh really? I would think it would be the other way around?

What about my speakers. I am running the EMP E5ti towers and center that are 6 ohms. Should I leave it at 8? I would think you would want it to be closer to the actual impedance, but I am not techie when it comes to power handling etc.

All speaker settings to be left at 8ohms when it comes to AVRs and impedence switches

 

[Adam]

It's been said a few times here, but here is a good explanation of the impedance selector switches from Audioholics:

Impedance Selector Switches
This so called feature, used by some manufacturers, is designed to prevent overheating of the receiver or damage to its output transistors because of excessive current flow. The manufacturer accomplishes this in one of 2 ways: 1) Stepping down rail voltage supplied to the power amp or 2) feeding half the signal strength to a voltage divider of power resistors. Both of these methods severely limit dynamics and current capability of the power amp. This results in an audible decrease in bass capability and dynamics transient sound because the 4 ohm setting effectively increases the receiver's output impedance. Unfortunately many manufacturers put these features on their products to ease customer concerns with driving low impedance loads and for safety reasons when getting UL approvals. Note: In order to meet UL requirements, a receiver cannot be rated down to 4 ohms without having this switch onboard. Receivers without this switch are usually rated down to 6 ohms. In most cases, well designed receivers can easily handle 4 ohm loads safely and efficiently. It is highly recommend to keep the impedance switch set to 8 ohms regardless of your speakers impedance and make sure your receiver has plenty of ventilation.