Picture Size vs. Image Quality

[joypunk]

Hi all, I'm new to these forums but not new to being an audioholic. =)

I'm in the market for a new HDTV, and I've done plenty of research on the different options out there. I currently have a 57" Sony rear-projection unit with 1080i capabilities. I also have a neighbor with a Toshiba 46" rear-projection also with 1080i capability. Something I've noticed a lot while watching my neighbors TV is that the picture looks better. Not a lot, but it is noticable. This could be a difference in the brand or the settings... but I believe it's related more to the screen size. Viewing something at the same resolution on a smaller screen is naturally going to look better.

So the question I have is where do you draw the line between picture size and image quality?

I really prefer to watch things on my larger screen. I've grown accustomed to the 57" screen and viewing my neighbor's 46" just seems really, really small.

But I'm also a quality enthusiast. I want to have the best picture quality I can possibly get, especially with how much HD content is becoming available.

Any advice or thoughts on the subject are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
-jp

 

[audiorookie]

I have a 50 inch Sony xbr1 rear projection tv that upconverts 1080i up to 1080p.
Ive had friends over with true 1080p tv's larger than mine 60 and 61 inches and theye both commented on how my tv looks better.
I think when it comes down to it you have to remember 1920 x 1080 is what it is no matter how big your tv is and the bigger you go the more area you try to cover with the same number of pixles.
So from experience i would say 50 inch would be just right for 1080p.
I would go no larger than 40 inch with 720p and as far as 60 inch i would wait a few years when the next bumb up in pixles is available, pluss the prices will be much cheaper then..

 

[Seth=L]

Get a top of the line Mitsubishi DLP.

 

[Sleestack]

So from experience i would say 50 inch would be just right for 1080p.
I would go no larger than 40 inch with 720p and as far as 60 inch i would wait a few years when the next bumb up in pixles is available, pluss the prices will be much cheaper then..

Perhaps it is an issue with rear projection units, but as far as plasma and LCD goes, 50" almost borders on being too small to fully benefit 1080p. I use a 65"1080p plasma and it maintains perfect clarity at 5', so I'm not sure why you would think 1080p pushes the limit at 60". Even at 65" it is far from fully utilized. Also, in addition to having an amazing image, the sheer size overwhelms the viewing experience of the 50" I used.

One case wherre what you are saying true is with upscaled SD material. Nothing is going to make that look good on a large panel.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hi all, I'm new to these forums but not new to being an audioholic. =)

I'm in the market for a new HDTV, and I've done plenty of research on the different options out there. I currently have a 57" Sony rear-projection unit with 1080i capabilities. I also have a neighbor with a Toshiba 46" rear-projection also with 1080i capability. Something I've noticed a lot while watching my neighbors TV is that the picture looks better. Not a lot, but it is noticable. This could be a difference in the brand or the settings... but I believe it's related more to the screen size. Viewing something at the same resolution on a smaller screen is naturally going to look better.

So the question I have is where do you draw the line between picture size and image quality?

I really prefer to watch things on my larger screen. I've grown accustomed to the 57" screen and viewing my neighbor's 46" just seems really, really small.

But I'm also a quality enthusiast. I want to have the best picture quality I can possibly get, especially with how much HD content is becoming available.

Any advice or thoughts on the subject are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
-jp

Perhaps you are sitting too close to that large display compared to the 46"?
There may be a paper on this at the home page discussing viewing distance and resolution.

 

[flyfish23]

I am looking tomupgrade my TV now from a 60 to a 72". Does anyone think it would be a mistake if I went with a 72 and have a 1080p signal? IF you have regular NTSC broadcast how bad would that look?

 

[joypunk]

Perhaps it is an issue with rear projection units, but as far as plasma and LCD goes, 50" almost borders on being too small to fully benefit 1080p. I use a 65"1080p plasma and it maintains perfect clarity at 5', so I'm not sure why you would think 1080p pushes the limit at 60". Even at 65" it is far from fully utilized. Also, in addition to having an amazing image, the sheer size overwhelms the viewing experience of the 50" I used.

One case wherre what you are saying true is with upscaled SD material. Nothing is going to make that look good on a large panel.

Would you think a DLP would make for a good 1080p screen at around 60"? I'm not sure I can afford a suitably sized Plasma, and the LCD's I've seen don't get large enough for me to really consider them.

---------------

Perhaps you are sitting too close to that large display compared to the 46"?
There may be a paper on this at the home page discussing viewing distance and resolution.

Actually, I'm sitting about 3-6' away from the 46" in their house, and I'm about 8-10' from the 57" in my house.

---------------

Just for reference, this is the set that I'm considering right now: Toshiba 62HM196 62" 1920x1080p HDTV. As I said, my neighbors have a Toshiba and I really like it. I'm also a big fan of Consumer Reports ratings, and they gave this TV a 78 (the highest mark in their latest review of HDTV's earlier this year). It was the #1 rated rear projection unit, and it's score of 78 is higher than any of the plasma or LCD units.

You can look at all the stats you want and view all the screens you want in stores... but you never truly know what you're getting until you get it home in your living room.

 

[Audioholics]

I would go no larger than 40 inch with 720p and as far as 60 inch i would wait a few years when the next bumb up in pixles is available, pluss the prices will be much cheaper then

Try to remember that some of us are watching 720p on a 100-inch screen (front projection) and it looks fantastic.

Displays are all different, as are technologies. LCD rear projection is inferior in terms of technology. DLP and LCoS (DILA/SXRD) are ahead of the curve for those types of displays. The quality of the set will determine as much as the size/resolution. All 60-inch TVs are not created equally.

The problem is - it's hard to evaluate a TV in the showroom (I'm writing an article on how to best do this). The other problem is that I have little motivation to review rear projection sets. They are bulky, a pain and very difficult to manage in terms of logistics. As a result we are somewhat unhelpful at present in helping our readers select the best RPTVs - except for what we see at trade shows and evaluate in showrooms.

 

[AVRat]

Have you ever used AVIA or DVD Essentials calibration disks, or had it professionally calibrated, to get the best picture from your set? Home Theater Magazine has also given Toshibas good reviews the last few years.

 

[WmAx]

Actually, I'm sitting about 3-6' away from the 46" in their house, and I'm about 8-10' from the 57" in my house.

Not considering resolution(but considering what feels comfortable to me in my field of vision), a 50" is perfect to me at 6'-7' distance. A 42" seems slightly sub-optimal at this distance. A 60" makes me a bit dizzy at 6-7', just like when I sit a bit too close to the screen in a movie theatre. I suppose a 60" might be perfect(at least to me) in the 9'-11' distance range.

-Chris

 

[joypunk]

Thanks for all the replies folks.

I know my viewing distance isn't optimal for a 57" screen (it's further away than I'd like to be), but my living room doesn't allow for any other arrangements considering my TV is 25" deep. That's another thing I'm taking into consideration with a new TV. A thinner set will allow me to place it on another wall and make my viewing distance about 5-7'.

As for Avia and DVD Essentials, I've used both of them. However, they were rentals and didn't have the color wheels with them for the calibration, so I had to do it all by eye.

I think I might also just have a bum TV. It has issues with the picture size from various sources, and nothing I can do with the configuration fixes them. From my PS2 the image isn't as wide as my screen (there's about 2" on the left and 1" on the right of black bars), and on my DVD player, the image is about 0.5" taller than my screen (so it's slightly cutoff at the top). My neighbor's Toshiba has absolutely no issues with these things. I'm actually impressed with how well it does at adapting the screen to the image that it receives.

Anyways, this has gotten off topic from what I originally asked. From the sounds of it, though, screen size vs. image quality doesn't really seem to be the issue... it's more the quality of the set and the technology used in converting the signal received. Does that about sum it up correctly?

 

[BMXTRIX]

This is one of the better articles I have read that discusses directly what on screen resolution vs. image size, vs. viewing distance should be for most people.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hitech/1137/maxing-out-resolution.html

What is not discussed?

1. Displays themselves often have different qualities. One 1080p display does not always look as good as another 1080p display at the same size.

2. This is often due to image processing and poor color calibration. With digital displays it is critical to understand that if your display is 1280x720 in resolution - then THAT IS ALL IT SHOWS WHEN THE SCREEN IS FILLED! So, even though it may accept 1080p, 1080i, 480p, and 480i signals - the only signal that is truly 'native' to the display would be a 720p signal. Because of this, the scalers inside the display will play a huge role in how good the on screen image appears.

3. Color handling/calibration is also critical. You simply can't get a great image if your colors are all wrong. Avia or Digital Video Essentials which are both calibration DVDs are the least that you should do to work towards a decent quality image - regardless of which TV you own.

4. LCD/DLP/LCoS/CRT - They are all slightly different. Since you mentioned a 25" depth, it sounds like you may have a CRT rear projection unit. CRT, while it typically has phenomenal color and black levels is also known for having a very 'soft' image to many people. This is because the image MUST be converged. That is, you have a red, blue, and green image that are layed on top of each other to get the full color image you see. To achieve this, all three colors must be perfectly lined up. If they are not, then the image will look soft, and often a bit blurry. This is something you can do yourself in just an hour or so and will greatly improve your overall image quality - but most people don't know that they should do it! Digital displays including DLP/LCD/LCoS do not require this and typically look sharper than CRT even though they often lack the contrast levels that CRT can reproduce.

5. Finally - the SOURCE matters a great deal! A HD source is obviously best, but the player of that HD source must also be fairly good at processing the HD signal. If you have a DVD player then that should be a good product. Many people go out and buy the cheap Samsung upconverting DVD player. After all - it's cheap and has HDMI - so it MUST be good.... right? Clearly, you see the flaw in that logic. Better processing costs more money and if you want quality but don't have a lot of cash, then you need to get as much information as possible - then fine a deal. www.videogon.com is a place where some great stuff can be had for some good deals. eBay is not everyones favorite place - but it also offers some great deals at times.

Yes - image size/resolution/distance/quality matter a great deal and are all tied together. Make the image bigger, move back. Increase the image quality, move closer. Improve processing, move closer. Have less than 20/20 vision? Move closer! Switch from HDTV to a VCR tape? Leave the room.