Philharmonic 3... Packing and shipping

ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
I think I told you how much I loved the bass from this transmission line design! I don't know that it is the T-L, but one way or another, it is very nice bass!
You probably already know this, but there is an easy setup you can use for comparing because your AVR will maintain settings unique to each input!
Your BDP X700 has two HDMI outputs (#2 is audio only, if it is like my X800).
So take 2 HDMI cables and plug HDMI Output #1 into the Marantz BD input and #2 into the DVD input.
Check to make sure that with the BD input selected you have retained all of the settings you use with your X13's active.
Then switch to DVD input and change the settings to just play the Phil3's.
Double check it, but you should now have your Phil3 w/subs on BD and Phil3 w/o subs on DVD.
Likely the volume level may require minor adjustment, but otherwise you have a pretty effective A-B switch by selecting which input.

I would consider it a no-brainer that you will prefer the subs for movies/LFE, but try it to see the differences (although I guess you will lose video when you switch to DVD since the Sony output HDMI #2 is Audio only).

I also expect you will prefer the subs for music with synthesized bass, but again try it to see what differences you detect not only in frequency range, but also in character of the bass (which may influence what frequency you ultimately decide to cross them at).

In theory, most if not all of the music you used to audition the Phil3's above should be within the Phil3's range. I don't remember Melody Gardot doing anything extra-low, but she does get more experimental in her later albums! So this is one of those classic questions: If your speakers are full range and you do not play them beyond their SPL limits, or play music with unusually low notes, do subwoofers add anything? Of course there are too many factors like the location of your bass sources (subs and speakers) to have a conclusive conclusion, but you can certainly decide for your setup.

I just love that these AVR's have this ability. It is almost like you can have two different systems for two different genres of music if you like. I use this setup to throw in some extra bass (increased sub volume) which I enjoy for HT and to reduce the bass for music.

No rush, but I am hoping you will play with this in the future and decide if there is any content where you would actually drop the subs or whatever observations you have along the path. I especially appreciate your evaluation, because you are so familiar with the live sounds of the instruments!

One more observation:
Looking at the gear in your signature (after you update it) just makes me proud! Not just of myself (though I am),but of Audioholics, and the fact that someone like you can come here and ask questions and end up with such a great system with fantastic sound quality and for a very reasonable price. You could have paid so much more and still not come close to such a good system.
Much of the credit goes to you! Not many have the patience and willingness to really pay attention and do the research. So often someone is convinced that they need to get the high dollar amp recently reviewed positively in Absolute Sound. Many would need to get the 7012 instead of the 6012! Or they just want to buy something from their local store and bring it home today! The leap of faith to buy speakers from Dennis is a bit of a stretch - I mean this is just some old-fart retired accountant working out of his house, what the fu¢k would he know about speakers! Many people need to be able to say a brand name (like Bose?:eek:) that their friends will recognize and agree are "the best". You had the intuition (?) to recognize many of the guys here are not just buddies of Dennis trying to push your money his way (as if Dennis is walking away with wads of cash). You took the time to find and listen to Dennis' speakers in your area, and (something many would not be able to do is) you immediately recognized just how exceptionally good they are! So bravo to you for taking your time, being thorough, and understanding what you were getting before you bought it!

I probably should re-frame this, we have had several people who end up with great systems for their situation. You are unique in that you were looking for a top level system right out of the gate - generally someone comes here, gets a good system and optionally upgrades it over time to an upper level system over several years and a couple of iterations. You went straight for "the top"!

But thank you for helping us (AH) be our best! Like I say, it makes me proud!!!:cool:
That was a great little nap I just had!. Whew! :) Much needed after so much stress yesterday, and so much play!
So many great points here, Kew! But first, thank you for the kind words.
There is so much more to say about the experience I'm having... half of it comes down to just gushing over the men behind it, and half of it is poorly worded "insight." ;)
Gonna start from the top:
Transmission Lines. Yes. My first and only experience, until now, was the 90 minutes of audition on the Phil 3 back in November. And you almost can't prepare yourself for it... much less the room. It honestly sounds like I have subs on right now, even though I'm in Pure Direct. (Not the X-13s, but like a little cousin of them.) I aim to learn more as I am diving into acoustics and wave theory. So many people have expressed how stunning the LF reproduction , and it is all true. Yet if it can be believed, a proper tapered 1/4-wave line is supposed to be better still! And this is where I hope to do the first big improvement to my system. I will likely explore a sealed build first, but with a little help from a particular local expert here at AH, and guidance from anywhere I can get it... I am looking at a TL Sub build to truly augment the bottom end of these stunning speakers I have.

I am almost frightened to try, on these, some of the Electronica that Shady has introduced me too. ;) Proper infrasonics...
And this is where my other quest comes in... Proper Bass Management.
I still have a lot to learn about BM for something like these speakers. The natural LF extension inherent to this design is amazing. To neuter it would be a shame, but so would damaging the drivers! I suspect a good balance will ultimately be struck between some MiniDSP product to control the subs... but there is still the odd point of treating full range towers as LF sources, too.
I am eager to learn more about Geddes' multiple sub technique and to ultimately run 5 LF sources (including the towers).

Life again beckons... more to come when I can!
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Dayum!!! Those bad boys look good! From your review I can only imagine how nice they must sound.

What are your thoughts on break-in periods?
If Jim and company did what I might hope, it takes a few hours for drivers to "break in and settle down" to get proper measurements. If the XO is adjusted for potential changes in Parameters, they could do that with simple in-house testing. Beyond that, I do kind of agree with many that the break-in period for finished speakers is myth. I think its more about your ears adjusting to the sound.
I may learn differently in time... but for now, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
My brother lives in the bay area, maybe next time I am out there we can do lunch. I will probably not be covering the California Audio Show, that is in Oakland. However, I do want to get out to that area to visit some manufacturers like JBL, Hsu, and Monoprice, all are up around there, but the LA area it is pretty far from the Bay area, as you know.

As for sub testing, one of the hardest things about that is finding a good place to do it. It has a stringent list of criteria that has to be met, and that is not easy to arrange in a suburban area and impossible in a urban area.
I am in the country!
:D
North side of the Bay Area, to be fair. Maybe when you get to test the Top Secret Hsu, the good Doctor will send it here! :p

:cool:
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
One more observation:
Looking at the gear in your signature (after you update it) just makes me proud! Not just of myself (though I am),but of Audioholics, and the fact that someone like you can come here and ask questions and end up with such a great system with fantastic sound quality and for a very reasonable price. You could have paid so much more and still not come close to such a good system.
Much of the credit goes to you! Not many have the patience and willingness to really pay attention and do the research. So often someone is convinced that they need to get the high dollar amp recently reviewed positively in Absolute Sound. Many would need to get the 7012 instead of the 6012! Or they just want to buy something from their local store and bring it home today! The leap of faith to buy speakers from Dennis is a bit of a stretch - I mean this is just some old-fart retired accountant working out of his house, what the fu¢k would he know about speakers! Many people need to be able to say a brand name (like Bose?:eek:) that their friends will recognize and agree are "the best". You had the intuition (?) to recognize many of the guys here are not just buddies of Dennis trying to push your money his way (as if Dennis is walking away with wads of cash). You took the time to find and listen to Dennis' speakers in your area, and (something many would not be able to do is) you immediately recognized just how exceptionally good they are! So bravo to you for taking your time, being thorough, and understanding what you were getting before you bought it!

I probably should re-frame this, we have had several people who end up with great systems for their situation. You are unique in that you were looking for a top level system right out of the gate - generally someone comes here, gets a good system and optionally upgrades it over time to an upper level system over several years and a couple of iterations. You went straight for "the top"!

But thank you for helping us (AH) be our best! Like I say, it makes me proud!!!:cool:
This, above everything, Kew, I appreciate greatly.
I have brought it up to other people I have endeavored to help here... you have to learn about this... just a little, to make the right decision. An educated consumer, right!? You don't have to master it, but you do have to know a little.
AH has taught me so much in the in the 9 months I've been here. To me, the only way I can pay that back is to perticipate in kind. I hope I haven't led any astray where I have offered assistance, and I still come asking questions myself.
The introduction to cats like Dennis and Jim was amazing (as well as to guys like Dave at Ascend and Rick at Selah). I never would have found thare stuff I don't think, without the suggestions from here.
As I play with my speakers some more in the next little bit, I'll post some updates, but the short of it is simple: Amazing things can come in small packages. The BMRs a example no.1 for this. A large standmount, only .75'3 internal volume iirc, comepting with full size towers! My gosh... that is phenomenal. The money I didn't spend on Monitor Audio speakers was reinvested into Dennis (and Jim) with the Phil 3.
That I was able to put this together without going into debt over it is also an amazing feet! I had originally been saving for a new Keilwerth Tenor when I decided wisely that would be a poor investment for myself. I had most of the money for my Philharmonic rig set aside before I even bought my Receiver last July!

Lastly, regarding that receiver... I had originally budgeted for the SR5012... and when I saw the sale price on the SR6012, I even wondered if I could justify moving up yet another step...Regardless, the discounted 6012 was less expensive than the 5012 at regular price! That, coupled with two sales from Outlaw... and here we are.

To everybody here at AH, the AH Team especially, but to everyone else as well... All of you helped me out tremendously in the pursuit of sharing ideas and knowledge! This is what makes this such a great place to get to hang out. Thank you all!!!
 
S

SoundUp

Audiophyte
The blue looks incredible! If they sound as good as they look (and I suspect they do), you must be in sonic bliss. Feeling some jealousy feels over here.
 
B

Bruce53

Full Audioholic
After five months, the day is almost here.
I was concerned I might not be able to get them when Dennis announced his retirement. I emailed Jim (I knew he was building the cabinets) and got a cryptic reply that the order was on hold since I talked to him a month prior, and Dennis' health had left some uncertainty about how to proceed. I even panicked and tried to figure out what I might do if I couldn't get these after planning on them for so long to anchor my rig! (How do you replace one of the best speakers you can buy in that price range... speakers that are generally regarded to go toe to toe with others at 2-3x their price if not more... full range 3-way design to pair with the existing BMRs???)

@D Murphy / @Dennis Murphy : Thank you! Dennis, I know your role in this was limited by very unfortunate circumstances, but this is the flagship of your brand, and I am eager to get these in place and have them fill (uh, Phil? :p) their role! And as always, thank you for the joy you brought back to my life in Sound! Continue on your path to recovery! Please get well, and I hope we get to speak again soon.

A big thank you to Jim Salk, too, for his role in keeping this alive!

Which brings me to this: The Phil 3 in Midnight Blue Curly Maple
View attachment 29255
True BLUE!
 
Bigsurprise

Bigsurprise

Audiophyte
These speakers look outrageously expensive. They must sound out of this world. Such a bold color choice but the black/blue theme looks great.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
These speakers look outrageously expensive. They must sound out of this world. Such a bold color choice but the black/blue theme looks great.
Fortunately, not outrageously expensive. ;) The sound quality is well above any reasonable expectation I could have.
Dennis is a master of his craft, as is Jim, and the third gentleman we have to thank for our respective Speakers: Paul Kittinger, who designed and optimized the MLTL in each of our Speakers.
If you look at Jim's site for your Verasity STs... you will see what I fell in love with and why I asked for Blue. :) I got him to take them as dark as I could without paying any additional surcharges for extra sessions shooting dye. As it is, I am still stoked and enjoy looking at them as much as I do listening to them. :D
 
Bigsurprise

Bigsurprise

Audiophyte
Yes I know the speakers you are talking about. I watched that New Record Day video a couple times to get a good idea of their relative size. I like yours because you still get to appreciate the wood grain. It's such a unique design.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Yes I know the speakers you are talking about. I watched that New Record Day video a couple times to get a good idea of their relative size. I like yours because you still get to appreciate the wood grain. It's such a unique design.
Close, but those aren't the ones. On the Veracity ST page, you'll see the Midnight Blue Quilted Maple. ;)
I still just want to fall into those alluring pools of dark blue, and keep falling forever. :D
 
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