Perlisten D215s: Is This the Most Accurate Subwoofer on the Planet?

Bobby Bass

Bobby Bass

Senior Audioholic
I would hope so Perlisten are end-game speakers but out of my price range at $12,900 a pair US.
 
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aoaaron

Audioholic Intern
Not a particularly good comparison method in several ways, but thanks. With sub frequencies I doubt there is going to be a particularly noticeable difference, but there's only one way to really find out....
How would you have compared? I literally tested the speakers I want to buy in MY room. I don't think you can get much better than a home demo for an extended period of time.

The measurements are already out in the wild with thorough reviews from audio-holics.

Which speakers do you have?

The distorsion levels seem to speak for themselves on the Perlisten kit. I have friends who have compared to SVS & Arendal and subs wise and find the Perlistens a lot more detailed, tight and dynamic than the latter. I wish I could find someone who has compared them to JTR.
 
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aoaaron

Audioholic Intern
I would hope so Perlisten are end-game speakers but out of my price range at $12,900 a pair US.
Yes, it hurt me to have to upgrade the bed layer to Perlisten S series.

The S7C is absolutely phenomenal though - love it. Much better than my old MTM Arendal 1723 centre, but still even nicer in sound quality than my old KEF kit too which doesn't suffer from lobing as much.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
It's very hard to do a good head to head comparison. I was just more curious how you went about it...sighted, non level matched and no quick switching is just only so interesting. The Perlistens are very good speakers from what I've seen in the way of measurements as well as the limited user comments I've seen. At least you were able to compare in your own room.

I'm sure the Perlisten sub is nice, I just wouldn't expect significant audible differences from other good subs, tho again their measurements are excellent. If its worth the time and money to you, go for it by all means, and advance congratulations.


How would you have compared? I literally tested the speakers I want to buy in MY room. I don't think you can get much better than a home demo for an extended period of time.

The measurements are already out in the wild with thorough reviews from audio-holics.

Which speakers do you have?

The distorsion levels seem to speak for themselves on the Perlisten kit. I have friends who have compared to SVS & Arendal and subs wise and find the Perlistens a lot more detailed, tight and dynamic than the latter. I wish I could find someone who has compared them to JTR.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I had little bias as I wanted to keep the Arendals and not buy the Perlistens.
Also works the other way.

Many people look for any excuse to buy something new - especially if their forum peers rave about it.

I went through a phase back when I was younger- I found excuses to buy a lot of speakers like the Revel Salon2, B&W 802D2, KEF Reference 201/2, and Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1, and a few other brands.
 
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aoaaron

Audioholic Intern
Also works the other way.

Many people look for any excuse to buy something new - especially if their forum peers rave about it.

I went through a phase back when I was younger- I found excuses to buy a lot of speakers like the Revel Salon2, B&W 802D2, KEF Reference 201/2, and Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1, and a few other brands.
not for me. I’m quite stingy. Never looking to spend unless I sell huge value. I still have nakamichi avp1s for power !

my main issues with arendal:
1. lack of 3d holographic imaging
2. flat imaging (my revels were a bit more holographic)
3. no flat on wall option (surrounds stick out a bit too much with no tilt)
4. centre channel abysmal performance past 15-20 degrees due to MTM design

etc.
 
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aoaaron

Audioholic Intern
It's very hard to do a good head to head comparison. I was just more curious how you went about it...sighted, non level matched and no quick switching is just only so interesting. The Perlistens are very good speakers from what I've seen in the way of measurements as well as the limited user comments I've seen. At least you were able to compare in your own room.

I'm sure the Perlisten sub is nice, I just wouldn't expect significant audible differences from other good subs, tho again their measurements are excellent. If its worth the time and money to you, go for it by all means, and advance congratulations.
They were level matched with no Dirac applied (I did do it later).
They both had no EQ applied.
they both had the same speaker positions. Played with toe in both of them as toe in affects the arendals.

I think sadly in this game, people obsess a lot over measurements without listening.

I also cross compared with kef reference which measure extremely well but sounded inferior to the perlistens in many respects. If I’d just gone off measurements, they are both flat so should have sounded the same.

I get some people can’t afford to demo the speakers in their own home or go out to listen to them and cross compare but I think it’s important. Sitting at home watching graphs only gets you so far.

for example, I can measure flat to 16hz with some budget ish subwoofers but they do sound different to higher end subs measuring the same - due to th

I’m really not keen to spend on the subs in hindsight so I might not even listen to them. I’d be trading three m15s for 1 d215 or 2 d15s or 2 JTR rs1
L
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
They were level matched with no Dirac applied (I did do it later).
They both had no EQ applied.
they both had the same speaker positions. Played with toe in both of them as toe in affects the arendals.

I think sadly in this game, people obsess a lot over measurements without listening.

I also cross compared with kef reference which measure extremely well but sounded inferior to the perlistens in many respects. If I’d just gone off measurements, they are both flat so should have sounded the same.

I get some people can’t afford to demo the speakers in their own home or go out to listen to them and cross compare but I think it’s important. Sitting at home watching graphs only gets you so far.

for example, I can measure flat to 16hz with some budget ish subwoofers but they do sound different to higher end subs measuring the same - due to th

I’m really not keen to spend on the subs in hindsight so I might not even listen to them. I’d be trading three m15s for 1 d215 or 2 d15s or 2 JTR rs1
L
People are correct to pay attention to measurements. If a speaker measures poorly it will sound bad. The problem is the converse is not necessarily true. It can measure well on standard measurements and come up somewhat short. I think the reason for that is shortcomings in power band response. That is not easily measured without significant risk of blowing up speakers under test.

Getting to listen to speakers is now tough. There are few local dealers that have a significant variety of offerings and conditions for such are often not optimal.

Having speakers shipped and then parking them up is a real PITA I would imagine. I say imagine, as I have never bought a speaker. I design and build my own.

Yes, I do make sure they measure well, and of course I get to hear them pretty much on a daily basis.

I do look at power band responses differently to most commercial rivals I think.

Commercial subs as a whole are inefficient which is why you see these enormous powers, and people assume the other speakers are offloaded. WRONG!

The acoustic energy from 80 Hz to 1500 Hz is enormous, and actually pretty significant to 2.5K. The common mistake is to offer three ways crossover over to a totally inadequate mid range driver about 400 Hz give or take a little. That speakers can measure well on standard measurements, but in no way deliver the goods on a lot of musical sources.
 
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aoaaron

Audioholic Intern
People are correct to pay attention to measurements. If a speaker measures poorly it will sound bad. The problem is the converse is not necessarily true. It can measure well on standard measurements and come up somewhat short. I think the reason for that is shortcomings in power band response. That is not easily measured without significant risk of blowing up speakers under test.

Getting to listen to speakers is now tough. There are few local dealers that have a significant variety of offerings and conditions for such are often not optimal.

Having speakers shipped and then parking them up is a real PITA I would imagine. I say imagine, as I have never bought a speaker. I design and build my own.

Yes, I do make sure they measure well, and of course I get to hear them pretty much on a daily basis.

I do look at power band responses differently to most commercial rivals I think.

Commercial subs as a whole are inefficient which is why you see these enormous powers, and people assume the other speakers are offloaded. WRONG!

The acoustic energy from 80 Hz to 1500 Hz is enormous, and actually pretty significant to 2.5K. The common mistake is to offer three ways crossover over to a totally inadequate mid range driver about 400 Hz give or take a little. That speakers can measure well on standard measurements, but in no way deliver the goods on a lot of musical sources.

Of course measurements matter - but so does listening to a speaker in your room.

The issue is that some people will discuss on the internet, being experts about speaker fidelity, especially high-end ones, without having even listened to one. I fell into this trap myself a few years ago.

Subs wise, I've spoken to James who advised the Monolith 15s are great. I will likely stick with them for a while. Maybe I should try to upgrade processor instead as mine is admittedly very poor.
 
G

Golfx

Full Audioholic
Of course measurements matter - but so does listening to a speaker in your room.

The issue is that some people will discuss on the internet, being experts about speaker fidelity, especially high-end ones, without having even listened to one. I fell into this trap myself a few years ago.

Subs wise, I've spoken to James who advised the Monolith 15s are great. I will likely stick with them for a while. Maybe I should try to upgrade processor instead as mine is admittedly very poor.
Ahhhh, enjoy your upgrade journey. You sound like a dedicated enthusiast who has not made his last purchase.
 
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aoaaron

Audioholic Intern
Ahhhh, enjoy your upgrade journey. You sound like a dedicated enthusiast who has not made his last purchase.
Speaker wise, I think I have. Doubt I’ll upgrade.
To be honest, my purchases this year are to actually put this audio hobby to bed.
I’m fed up of continuously upgrading so want to buy once, cry once - and then just update my projector every 3-4 years.
 
G

Golfx

Full Audioholic
Speaker wise, I think I have. Doubt I’ll upgrade.
To be honest, my purchases this year are to actually put this audio hobby to bed.
I’m fed up of continuously upgrading so want to buy once, cry once - and then just update my projector every 3-4 years.
I roll around in enjoyment when I am on the “hunt” for some new thing to change or add. It is a solid addiction but still much cheaper than having an affair.
 
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aoaaron

Audioholic Intern
I roll around in enjoyment when I am on the “hunt” for some new thing to change or add. It is a solid addiction but still much cheaper than having an affair.
Haha. I want to move into property now. I’ve found this hobby very fun but audio and outdoor cooking have reached a limit for me where I either start doing it professionally or spread myself a bit thinner.

I fancy getting back into finishing my home gym and then just enjoying the kit I have.




maybe a trinnov next year though
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
They were level matched with no Dirac applied (I did do it later).
They both had no EQ applied.
they both had the same speaker positions. Played with toe in both of them as toe in affects the arendals.

I think sadly in this game, people obsess a lot over measurements without listening.

I also cross compared with kef reference which measure extremely well but sounded inferior to the perlistens in many respects. If I’d just gone off measurements, they are both flat so should have sounded the same.

I get some people can’t afford to demo the speakers in their own home or go out to listen to them and cross compare but I think it’s important. Sitting at home watching graphs only gets you so far.

for example, I can measure flat to 16hz with some budget ish subwoofers but they do sound different to higher end subs measuring the same - due to th

I’m really not keen to spend on the subs in hindsight so I might not even listen to them. I’d be trading three m15s for 1 d215 or 2 d15s or 2 JTR rs1
L
I don't obsess over measurements, but they're often better than relying only on someone else's subjective experience or preference. Just because measurements are relatively flat does not mean they will sound the same, there's more to measurements than just basic frequency response, too. I've done some comparisons, they can be helpful but just saying unless they're conducted to exclude biases, may not tell you much. These days if I want something I'll simply buy it, but local stores are nonexistent so internet and a decent return policy will suffice. I'd still use at least dual subs, even if they're a dual driver sub, but the three subs you mention are all excellent. Good luck on your decision.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Speaker wise, I think I have. Doubt I’ll upgrade.
To be honest, my purchases this year are to actually put this audio hobby to bed.
I’m fed up of continuously upgrading so want to buy once, cry once - and then just update my projector every 3-4 years.
That is the way to do it. Go for quality and buy seldom. I try and pick winners, and keep gear for a very long time, like 60 years plus. The only items I have purchased in the last four years, were the parts to rebuild my HTPC. The motherboard I purchased four years ago was a bit of a disaster, so I had to move to a gamer board, that has been excellent. Otherwise the three system I installed here when we built this new home are unchanged.
 
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aoaaron

Audioholic Intern
I don't obsess over measurements, but they're often better than relying only on someone else's subjective experience or preference. Just because measurements are relatively flat does not mean they will sound the same, there's more to measurements than just basic frequency response, too. I've done some comparisons, they can be helpful but just saying unless they're conducted to exclude biases, may not tell you much. These days if I want something I'll simply buy it, but local stores are nonexistent so internet and a decent return policy will suffice. I'd still use at least dual subs, even if they're a dual driver sub, but the three subs you mention are all excellent. Good luck on your decision.
The measurements are already available on audioholics.

for my testing , why would you want me to re measure an already measured and quantified speaker?

or what else would you suggest I do at that point to compare them?

I level matched, compared without any eq on multiple tracks in stereo, then some film without subs (then some with sub for fun). Used them in the same positions too.
Assessed blind with myself and a few others too for comparisons.
For my own personal use case, I don’t get why I’d get out rew when there is already data over the internet
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The measurements are already available on audioholics.

for my testing , why would you want me to re measure an already measured and quantified speaker?

or what else would you suggest I do at that point to compare them?

I level matched, compared without any eq on multiple tracks in stereo, then some film without subs (then some with sub for fun). Used them in the same positions too.
Assessed blind with myself and a few others too for comparisons.
For my own personal use case, I don’t get why I’d get out rew when there is already data over the internet
I wasn't referring to you measuring particularly, altho that perhaps could be interesting in your room. How did you level match particularly, tho? Just the time lag between your tests could negate their usefulness, too. How blind were the tests? Were the speakers being compared for performance or preference?
 
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aoaaron

Audioholic Intern
I wasn't referring to you measuring particularly, altho that perhaps could be interesting in your room. How did you level match particularly, tho? Just the time lag between your tests could negate their usefulness, too. How blind were the tests? Were the speakers being compared for performance or preference?
SPL meter via REW calibrated to 75db using signal wave generater speaker cal file.
Preference of course - I'm buying a speaker I want to keep in my room.
Pretty blind... As in no one knew which speaker was playing. A/B tested about 20-50 songs - its something we actually enjoy doing.

What speakers do you have? Which have you tested and whats your testing protocol?

I feel like you probably want an ASR breakdown of the speakers which I find a waste of time given measurements are already done by reviewers with much better measurement kit than what most of us have.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
SPL meter via REW calibrated to 75db using signal wave generater speaker cal file.
Preference of course - I'm buying a speaker I want to keep in my room.
Pretty blind... As in no one knew which speaker was playing. A/B tested about 20-50 songs - its something we actually enjoy doing.

What speakers do you have? Which have you tested and whats your testing protocol?

I feel like you probably want an ASR breakdown of the speakers which I find a waste of time given measurements are already done by reviewers with much better measurement kit than what most of us have.
Just curious how you went about it rather than just do something less formal. I generally don't bother A/B any more, found it very time consuming and hard to do by myself, altho met someone kinda local on one of the forums a few years ago when I was living in the SF bay area, and we got together and tested 3 different pairs of similar speakers (all mine, he was interested in buying the same speakers), not particularly blind, no eq, with crude level matching and somewhat quick switching (I had a an A/B/C switching box)....and we found it somewhat inconclusive as our opinions weren't the same and it somewhat depended on what we listened to (all 2ch music).

I have quite a few speakers and subs spread over 4 multich systems and one 2ch system, and I diy'd the last several subs. I just move 'em to another room rather than get rid of any, hate the selling process and none deserved returning particularly.

Sounds like you're building a very nice system and I would love to experience Perlisten but not about to put down any money/effort to do so. If I had better test gear, perhaps something like the Van Alstine ABX Comparator would be interesting (but not interesting enough to buy one!).

Didn't mean to grill you, just more curious what you did and how you went about it.
 
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aoaaron

Audioholic Intern
Just curious how you went about it rather than just do something less formal. I generally don't bother A/B any more, found it very time consuming and hard to do by myself, altho met someone kinda local on one of the forums a few years ago when I was living in the SF bay area, and we got together and tested 3 different pairs of similar speakers (all mine, he was interested in buying the same speakers), not particularly blind, no eq, with crude level matching and somewhat quick switching (I had a an A/B/C switching box)....and we found it somewhat inconclusive as our opinions weren't the same and it somewhat depended on what we listened to (all 2ch music).

I have quite a few speakers and subs spread over 4 multich systems and one 2ch system, and I diy'd the last several subs. I just move 'em to another room rather than get rid of any, hate the selling process and none deserved returning particularly.

Sounds like you're building a very nice system and I would love to experience Perlisten but not about to put down any money/effort to do so. If I had better test gear, perhaps something like the Van Alstine ABX Comparator would be interesting (but not interesting enough to buy one!).

Didn't mean to grill you, just more curious what you did and how you went about it.
What level of speakers do you have?
 
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