PB12-Plus or VTF-15 H

W

warchant

Audiophyte
So i'm looking to upgrade. Currently have an Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. My room is 12x30 50% music 50% movies. I have Salk songtowers and really enjoy them with classical, jazz but they don't seem to have the viceral impact on rock that I like. Will moving up to one of these subs help with that? I actually like the plus for movies but it seems to like some mid-bass slam. I have heard that the VTF-15 H has really great mid bass slam. Which one would you guys go with. The extra money is not an issue just don't want to go with SVS and be dissapointed with mid-bass, and reviews have me all confused. Thanks for your help
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
have you considered buying two or three more LFM-1 Pluss(es)?

Multiple subs should get you a boost in output as well as smooth out room response....

Midbass slam is purely a function of output in certain frequencies. If you're not getting it with flat response it's either because

- You desire something which isn't there in the original recording. To fix this you need a house curve in your frequency response to "boost" the part of the music you want to hear.

- Your sub lacks raw output capability in the midbass. Multiple subs should solve this IMO.

- You've got a room suckout at mid bass frequencies. Placement and multiple subs should solve this one too.
 
W

warchant

Audiophyte
Thanks thats something I will have to think about, I just don't want to get another LFM-1 and still have upgradeitis.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
So i'm looking to upgrade. Currently have an Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. My room is 12x30 50% music 50% movies. I have Salk songtowers and really enjoy them with classical, jazz but they don't seem to have the viceral impact on rock that I like. Will moving up to one of these subs help with that? I actually like the plus for movies but it seems to like some mid-bass slam. I have heard that the VTF-15 H has really great mid bass slam. Which one would you guys go with. The extra money is not an issue just don't want to go with SVS and be dissapointed with mid-bass, and reviews have me all confused. Thanks for your help
You don't specify which SVS model, but I'm inclined to agree with the multiple sub approach. You might want to revisit your option based on the idea of buying at least two of whatever you get.
Another notion is to invest some time evaluating your room using REW so you have a better idea of how much of a beast you may have to tame and if there are any special concerns in the area that you are feeling your system is not quite there.
The Salks should do pretty well in a 12 X 30 room - unless it is 20 feet high!
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
The only reason I would not recommend getting another outlaw is if you're dissatisfied with the actual QUALITY of the sound, not the so-called subjective "slam"

But I've never heard an LFM-1 plus so I can't really comment, although I'd presume it sounds extremely similar to a VTF-15 in high tuning mode (with less output of course).
 
W

warchant

Audiophyte
Thanks I never really thought about room suck-out. That makes sense my sub does really well with low sounds, organ and lower bass on electronic music but doesn't seem to have any mid-bass. My question is the SALKS seem to be lacking in that department also and I (obviously) have two of those. I don't know if this question makes sense but if I throw raw power at a room suck-out will that ovecome it? I/E upgrade to larger sub. I tried changing the crossover to 50 hz to see if the Salks would provide me with a more smoothed out response, and didn't get what I was looking for. Thanks for all your replies. Hope some of this rambling makes sense
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
First of all, The best way to know what your in room frequency response is, is to measure it properly. I too second the REW recommendation before you spend on bigger, badder subs.

Second, a bigger sub won't undo a suckout unless its coupling nature is designed to do so (IE a dipole open baffle sub EQ'd flat)

Third, back to your Songtowers. The Salks use dual 5" drivers. While the bass tuning gets impressive extension out of them, I really doubt they would be capable of much so-called "slam". I'm sure they're nice drivers but they've never really struck me as a speaker designed for output. While above ~250hz they probably have plenty of output, IMO below that range or so you normally want more raw output simply because bass tends to IMO be a bit more dynamic.

To do so you need more displacement and with passive speakers, more amplification. This is especially true in larger rooms. What might have a lot of slam inside a car would need much more displacement inside a home due to dispersion loss. that doesn't even factor in whether your bass is flat or not. In car you may be getting +8db boost at 50hz-140hz for all you know. Not particularily natural but occasionally enjoyable depending on what you're listen to. You really need to isolate what it is you're missing because right now it seems you're on a wild goose chase.

Much of what some people perceive as midbass is actually closer to being upper bass and I think that's relevant to note. All the output in the world from 45-90hz matters not if what you desire is output around 180hz for example. Have you ever tested the frequency response of songs that you feel are inadequate on your system?
 
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W

warchant

Audiophyte
Thanks sounds like I need to get and figure out REW. That will at least give me a starting point.
 
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