PB10-ISD Problems

[jared555]

I have only used the calibration on my receiver (I don't have a SPL meter yet), but on a DVD I know has a lot of bass (metallica: cunning stunts) I can barely hear it when I have it turned up fairly loud but when it is at a low level (not very loud) I can hear it very clearly.

I only have 1 good spot to physically put the sub. It is playing very loud (when I was in front of it I could see it moving quite a bit).

Any suggestions other than getting a heavy duty extension cord or rearranging the entire room?

 

[jared555]

sorry, forgot to add a couple things:
the room is 15' by 11' with an 8' ceiling, the gain is at a little over half on the sub, tried phases at 0, 90, and 180. The receiver set it to +1db with the mains at about -1 or 0dB (these are only 89dB pioneer speakers). I set the crossover to 100hz with everything set to small to make sure it was getting as much signal as possible.

when I was playing it without the sub there was just as much if not more bass from the bookshelves.

It is louder in my parent's room through the wall than the seating position in my room.

 

[Sheep]

Thats a sacrifice we all made when adopting this hobby, it wheres the pants. Experiment with placement, get messy, cause it could take some time..

SheepStar

 

[Sheep]

sorry, forgot to add a couple things:
the room is 15' by 11' with an 8' ceiling, the gain is at a little over half on the sub, tried phases at 0, 90, and 180. The receiver set it to +1db with the mains at about -1 or 0dB (these are only 89dB pioneer speakers). I set the crossover to 100hz with everything set to small to make sure it was getting as much signal as possible.

when I was playing it without the sub there was just as much if not more bass from the bookshelves.

It is louder in my parent's room through the wall than the seating position in my room.

Now that you mention it, can you post a picture maybe? And, where is your seating position? In the middle of the room is a NO NO.

SheepStar

 

[jared555]

I am about 4 feet from one wall and 4-5 from another.

THe main reason I couldn't put it behind me was because it would probably be too loud in the other room, but after hearing it already I know that doesn't matter where it is lol.

THe 2 positions I would like it in most will not work at all... big magnets + computers = no.

I will try and find an extension cord and try it in the 2 other POSSIBLE options.

A sub this recomended at +5dB over the mains (I increased it 5 from what the receiver set it to) and +4dB bass that isn't easy to hear is a little scary.

Kind of had this problem when we were playing with it in the living room, but I can really understand that... comparing it to a 200 watt 15" sub (only a $300 sub) in an area probably 5 times the size of my room.


OH, and I am sorry, I can't get a picture, probably a good thing though cause you all would murder me after seeing the arrangement in this room...

 

[j_garcia]

Check to see that the receiver did not set the mains or other speakers to large.

 

[jared555]

It did originally and I fixed it before I even started testing it.

The sub sounds great a few feet straight in front of it, but in other places it doesn't sound right.

What I don't understand is why during certain volume ranges it sounds great, some it is too loud, and some you can barely hear it (these are only 89dB sensitivity speakers with an 85 watt amp into them). Higher levels (over -15dB or -10dB, and no that is NOT -10dB from any kind of reference level, the speakers are just calibrated relative to each other, not relative to a certain dB level) is where it starts to get almost inaudible over the bookshelf speakers.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Your folks Cerwin Vega 15" sub most likely puts out more dB with Metallica because of it's higher tuning, large driver, and efficiency. The PB10 is tuned very low for HT, and will shine below 25Hz. Metallica bass is kick drum bass - around 45Hz. Compare those two subs with WOTA or U571, and you'll see the difference.

If you've gone through your Onkyo's speaker setup, and set your speakers to 80Hz (no reason for the SVS to output to 100Hz), speakers set to small, I'd say to boost the subs output to +10dB at the receiver, raise the gain on the SVS to 3/4's, and tune the sub to it's highest Hz setting.

As long as you have the PB10 up against a wall, and not near an opening (doorway) or out in the middle of the room, it will give you decent bass.

What I don't understand is why during certain volume ranges it sounds great, some it is too loud, and some you can barely hear it.

Those are room mode issues. I bet the graph on the Hz output is like a roller coaster.

 

[j_garcia]

Cunning Stunts is only in stereo, AFAIK, so it could have something to do with the decoding. Have you tried any other DVDs? In a room that size, that guy should rock pretty hard. What receiver are we talking about?

 

[jared555]

The only dvd so far has been the metallica one (btw. I am saying the pioneer bookshelves had louder bass than the SVS, not my parent's sub).

It has stereo and 5.1 both. Movies I have that I will be trying later (my dad is watching tv in the living room atm and I don't want to drown it out even with my door shut lol): Matrix 2/3; LOTR (non extended editions) all movies; Finding Nemo; Godzilla; Resident Evil (both); maybe I, Robot, startrek generations/nemesis.

Will also be trying the sub in the 2-3 other possible locations, but they aren't too great cause it involves having to run an extension cord across the room or having it a bit too close to the DVD player/game systems. (around 6 feet, around a bit of a corner, and aimed in the opposite direction we were making my parent's onkyo cd player skip).

The best place would probably be about 3 feet away to me to my left, but that puts it way too close to a lot of computer equipment.

Not saying I don't like the SVS, just saying I don't like how my room makes it sound . Hopefully after the 26th I will have one of the radioshack spl meters.

I have limited EQ in my receiver... 40hz, 80hz, 160hz(?why?) on the sub.

 

[Sheep]

As a general rule, beside the TV or in a corner is a good place to start.

Nearfield is a good place for movie watching, but I don't like it for music.

If you really want to find an optimal location, put the subwoofer where you sit, and point it as the wall you want to put it on. Play bass heavy music, then crawl on the floor and find a spot where the bass sounds just right to you. Then place.

SheepStar

 

[jared555]

oh, and I might as well give a vague description of my very bad layout until I can get a picture...

If you don't feel like reading I can hopefully get pictures tonight, but if you want to laugh at how bad the setup is you might as well read.

I sit facing the 15' wall, am relatively close to the left 11' wall. There is a 6' long table on the left wall, a metal desk on the front wall (both in the corner). The left pionner bookshelf is on the table, along with a 15" monitor and a 17" monitor and two DVD spinners stacked. at the end of the table is a dresser with a cd spinner and a polk audio left surround. On the desk left to right is a 19" monitor (main screen currently), a gigantic laser printer, and then the onkyo receiver. there is a stand to the right of the desk with a pionner bookshelf on it and my junk 13" tv. THe center channel is a small bookshelf speaker on the shelf above my desk tipped on its side. The right front corner has a bed in it. The SVS is at the end of the bed (probably some of the reason for sound problems...) and next to that is a bookcase. Two open closests with a ton of stuff in them, on the floor is 3 computer screens a couple boxes, etc. The right surround is on the bookcase (like 12' away, I plan on getting a speaker stand for it...) and the back surround is on a shelf in the closet.

Oh, and the VERY best part... when the main computer is on the fans are probably 60dB or a bit louder, if I have the fans turned up to max they are probably 70dB. The problem is that computer plays the DVDs.

(I had the computer off when I did the calibration so it wouldn't cause major interferance)

 

[jared555]

How close to a computer or monitor would be considered safe with a sub like this? Don't want to find the best place for the sub and then find out I need to replace computer parts

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

It's definitely the room. I can just see those LF sound waves now, like a bunch of drunk college guys at a sorority party. It sounds like you need a dedicated listening room, or at least some spring cleaning to do in the existing room. That's a lot of monitors! I'm sure pictures will tell more.

 

[jared555]

there isn't much of a choice on listening area unless I wanted to put it in the living room and then we are talking about needing dual 12" subs. To really watch movies it is usually in the living room anyway, the speakers are more mismatched than mine even but there are less of the wonderful room effects until we turn it up really loud and then the treble sounds... strange. probably cause we have 96db sensitivity speakers about 6' away from the wall they are facing

I have 3 monitors hooked up, if I had a better printer for the laser printer and the receiver I would have the ones on the floor up on the desk hooked up

I am planning on cleaning up, but stuff had to be drug around for room for the laser printer and sub.

If I manage to get a job that pays much money eventually I am just going to go rackmount on equipment which should clean the mess up a lot.

Would having the sub closer eliminate some of the bad effects the room is having on it or does distance not matter too much? (The thing sounds fine 3-5 feet straight in front of it) I ran a 20,000-20hz sweep through it and it played all the way through, just not very smoothly.

I will probably say this a few more times but thanks for all the help you have been giving me.

Edit - addition: just walking around I found out with the sub where it is the best listening position is sitting on my bed in the corner, the worst position is where my listenting position is lol

 

[scotty11]

delete delete

 

[jared555]

the LOTR scenes listed at http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/svs-pb10-subwoofer-10-2004.html sound great, music doesn't right though. If anything during LOTR it is TOO loud and that is just how the receiver calibrated it, not running 5dB over everything else.

 

[jared555]

I set it in front of me (about 2 feet away from where I could put it) and it sounds a LOT better on music, haven't gone back to movie yet

Edit: And you were right, 100hz is too much bass when it is sounding right...


I probably haven't don't any damage to it from having to play it so loud to get the right levels have I? Don't think I ever heard the bottoming out noise (sounded like it when I had something sitting on top of the sub though heh)

 

[jared555]

Sorry for yet another post, I haven't been able to get access to a digital camera.

I found a place where it sounds good (still a bit low but a LOT better).

I am not sure what to do though, or if it is safe to leave it like it is. It is right on the edge between carpet/wood flooring (in the closet, the closet doesn't have carpet). To get the front on the sub I had to pull it forward a bit so that the front feet were on the carpet. The middle two are now in the air, is this safe, and if not what should I do? I thought about unscrewing the middle ones a bit so they were on the ground but I figured that might put too much sideways force on the enclosure.