Parametric EQ Filters

[<eargiant]

So I've finally been spending some time with my Yamaha A-S801 & Polk SDA SRS2 and it's reminded me how good the SDA SRS2 really are. These speakers always stun me, not for what they are expected to do (which is a given) but how strong they are in other areas. This is one time I'll have to strongly disagree with TLSGuy (with all due respect), these speakers are fantastic (I could dedicate an entire thread to them). I'm not a novice and in my humble opinion they are surprisingly good. As always, I trust my ears and not the consensus of objectivists, subjectivists or "audiophiles" (regardless of what camp they fall in). I don't even fully trust graphs because they would lead me to believe that the spike in the high-end frequencies of the SDA SRS2 tweeter is similar to the spike in the Bowers & Wilkins 805D2 tweeter. As a current owner of both, I can tell you that they sound nothing alike. The tweeter is the shortfall of the SDA SRS2.

Now to the positive, to give you an idea of the SDA SRS2 presentation with intimate recordings (which is not what they're know for) they are closer to my Sennheiser HD650s than my AKG 7XX (albeit with much more to offfer than the HD650). A few years back I had them in a different room with a different amp and I didn't find the SL-2000 tweeter objectionable. In this current set-up and room I do find it objectionable, especially when the SPL increases and therein lies my problem.

I've been thinking about ordering the replacement RDO-194 tweeters which supposedly do not have that spike which I've read is in the ~12-13kHz range . In the meantime, I've been playing with the Parametric EQ in my Roon player and I'm getting close to what sounds right to me. I've been using the "High Shelf" filter. My question is, what is primary difference between the High Shelf filter and other filters available in the software?

I've only started playing with this "by ear" (or <ear ) because I have not ordered my mini dsp mic yet. So far, the High Shelf sounds best but I'm still trying to hone down the frequency and gain settings.

Also, wondering if parametric EQ (once dialed in) will be just as good as ordering the replacement tweeters since I'm really only trying to attenuate at the very top of the band.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[PENG]

I've been using the "High Shelf" filter. My question is, what is primary difference between the High Shelf filter and other filters available in the software?

It looks to me the types of the various filters are well defined by Roon as shown in the posted pictures, so what are your specific questions that you feel they have not addressed?

I've only started playing with this "by ear" (or <ear ) because I have not ordered my mini dsp mic yet. So far, the High Shelf sounds best but I'm still trying to hone down the frequency and gain settings.

Have you been playing with the Q and S factors as well? If you use their default values, then even with your good ears, it really would be hit or miss because you may not know what you missed by not entering the proper Q and S parameters that affects the slopes and bandwidths of the equalizers.

Also, wondering if parametric EQ (once dialed in) will be just as good as ordering the replacement tweeters since I'm really only trying to attenuate at the very top of the band.

I would say yes, if the replacement tweeters only make a difference in certain peaks that could be addressed by the filters. Imo it is still a good idea to replace the old ones regardless, especially given that if the old ones are the originals, they've got to be really old by now.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

You should figure out the best Q and/or S factors (if not yet), enter the calculated values, then play it by ear for further fine tuning.

Also, when do have the minidsp UMik-1 mic, run REW, then let REW create the filters that should give you more accurate gains, Q and S values for the Roon parametric filters. I have compared with and without DSP (JRiver's) using the LS50s. I find the overall SQ with the EQ on is audibly better. At first, I had issue with the soundstage, got that one solved by running REW for each channel independtly, so each channel has it's own set of filters.

 

[Lewis Jordan]

UAPP for Android has one

 

[<eargiant]

It looks to me the types of the various filters are well defined by Roon as shown in the posted pictures, so what are your specific questions that you feel they have not addressed?

Agreed, they are pretty well defined and as I've played with them a bit more their function has become even clearer. I guess I just wanted to be sure that there wasn't a particular filter I should be using or avoiding for what I was trying to accomplish. In the end trial and error worked best.

Have you been playing with the Q and S factors as well? If you use their default values, then even with your good ears, it really would be hit or miss because you may not know what you missed by not entering the proper Q and S parameters that affects the slopes and bandwidths of the equalizers.

You should figure out the best Q and/or S factors (if not yet), enter the calculated values, then play it by ear for further fine tuning.

Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful replies.

Not sure why I didn't start with the gain settings first. I guess since the Yamaha doesn't seem to have an overdone pre-amp gain stage I didn't think of that first.

I played around with various combinations and in the end I settled on a gain setting of -6dB. Things were much more to my liking on most recordings with the reduced gain. With that setting I did not need to use the parametric to adjust the high frequency most of the time. If I did I tried the High Shelf setting at 8kHz with a -3dB gain setting and it seemed to do the trick on those recordings with hot highs. I kept the the Q setting at 1 because anything lower rolled off too soon and anything higher accentuated the highs right before the shelf setting point- which is not what I wanted at all.

Bottom line is that the SDA SRS2 are very efficient >90dB and in all honesty the room I have them in at the moment is not adequate, it's too small. So gain coupled with higher SPL was a problem. The lower gain setting did the trick.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm really only trying to attenuate at the very top of the band.

I thought you prefer the treble to be a little hot?

The 805Ds have a broad +7dB peak around 10-12kHz.

I guess you like the treble to be hot on the B&W, but not on the Polk?

 

[PENG]

I thought you prefer the treble to be a little hot?

The 805Ds have a broad +7dB peak around 10-12kHz.

I guess you like the treble to be hot on the B&W, but not on the Polk?

I think the listening window extends to around 10-12 kHz, so the +7 dB (was it really that much?) at that very top high may not bother a lot of people. Also, the Polk SDA may have an elevated range at between 4 to 8 kHz that humans are more sensitive to, hence the reason he found shelf filters work better.

In my room, the LS50 does not need shelf filters and a few boost and cuts did the trick though it was a pain to figure out all the Q's.

 

[<eargiant]

I thought you prefer the treble to be a little hot?

The 805Ds have a broad +7dB peak around 10-12kHz.

I guess you like the treble to be hot on the B&W, but not on the Polk?

I started another thread on the topic of measured high frequency peaks.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/which-speaker-would-you-prefer.110882/

I have to give you credit because your fixation on that measured peak of the 805Ds is what gave me the idea for the thread.

I think the listening window extends to around 10-12 kHz, so the +7 dB (was it really that much?) at that very top high may not bother a lot of people. Also, the Polk SDA may have an elevated range at between 4 to 8 kHz that humans are more sensitive to, hence the reason he found shelf filters work better.

In my room, the LS50 does not need shelf filters and a few boost and cuts did the trick though it was a pain to figure out all the Q's.

I did some more listening tonight and I shelved the high shelf filter . It turns out that the -6dB gain setting alone has been doing the job wonderfully. Much, much closer to what is acceptable in my book.

I'm very happy that I started playing with the parametric EQ. I may actually spend more time down here listening .

P.S.- I've been itching to get another stand-mount in here and have seriously been considering the LS-50s. Another pair in the running are the Technics SB-C700. I auditioned them at an intimate Technics unveiling of their new product line a while back and liked them very much. I'll keep you posted.

 

[PENG]

I started another thread on the topic of measured high frequency peaks.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/which-speaker-would-you-prefer.110882/

I have to give you credit because your fixation on that measured peak of the 805Ds is what gave me the idea for the thread.



I did some more listening tonight and I shelved the high shelf filter . It turns out that the -6dB gain setting alone has been doing the job wonderfully. Much, much closer to what is acceptable in my book.

I'm very happy that I started playing with the parametric EQ. I may actually spend more time down here listening .

P.S.- I've been itching to get another stand-mount in here and have seriously been considering the LS-50s. Another pair in the running are the Technics SB-C700. I auditioned them at an intimate Technics unveiling of their new product line a while back and liked them very much. I'll keep you posted.

I was actually surprised you liked the shelf filters because I have not seen too many speaker's FR graphs that could benefit from them, the "B" speaker in your other thread could have been one that could use such a filter, definitely not the "A", just an example.

Regarding the LS50, based on my own experience, if you have a smaller room they are hard to beat at the current discounted price levels, assuming you like their sound signature. If your room is medium size and you sit 10 ft or more from them, you are going to want a subwoofer, then it gets expensive. People say they need a lot of power, but in my opinion, they are not designed to play very loud and are just not efficient overall.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I started another thread on the topic of measured high frequency peaks.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/which-speaker-would-you-prefer.110882/

I have to give you credit because your fixation on that measured peak of the 805Ds is what gave me the idea for the thread.

Dennis Murphy sure knows a lot more about audio than I.

He believes there are plenty of music contents above 9kHz to below 15kHz. And people may hear the difference especially if the speaker has a broad peak in this 9-15kHz region.