Paradigm vs. Klipsch vs. B&W vs. Monitor Audio vs. ???

[thephatp]

Ok guys (and gals), I'm trying to nail something down in the next week or so, and I could really use some help here. I'll tell you what I've found, and what I've read, and you tell me what you think, and if I need to check out anything else before I buy.

I've listened to a handful of speakers, but not a lot. I've compared the B&W 300 series and the Klipsch 25 series, and as of now, I'm strongly favoring the Klipsch 25 series. I want to do 7.1, but I can deal with 5.1 for now, as I have a price limit of about $1500-$1600.

My living room is open (half-wall to left, and open to breakfast and kitchen bar in back), with all ceramic tile, so I've started worrying about the brightness of the room added to the brightness of the speakers I love so much -- the Klipsch 25 series.

I've read a lot on other forums, and I'm discovering other widely favored speakers as well.

So this is what I need to know: What is comparable to the Klipsch 25 series and B&W 300 series in other lines like Paradigm, Monitor Audio, Boston Acoustics, etc?

I don't know what to look for in Paradigm (their website doesn't break down the speakers as well as other sites). I've been told the Monitor series in Paradigm will rival the Klipsch Reference. What do you think?

I need specific speaker model numbers / series / etc. so that I know exactly what to compare. If I can get a great sound that I love as much as the Klipsch 25 series for a lower price, I'll do it. But I want suggestions instead of going into it blindly! FYI, I listen to a lot of music, and I've found myself favoring floorstanding towers for the fronts.

Any suggestions of what else I should look at that compares with B&W 300 and Klipsch 25 for around the same price or less?

Thanks!!!

 

[BobbyT]

As always get what you like, what sounds best to you. And don't let someone on a forum who doesn't like what YOU like talk YOU out of buying what YOU like. It's unfortunate that this happens on a lot of forums. That said Klipsch and B&W both make fine products. You can't go wrong with either. The Paradigm Studio series is the one to compre to Klipsch Reference.

If you don't mind used you might take a look at audiogon for Klipsch higher in the Ref line.

 

[Duffinator]

You will find a lot of people on this site that do not like Klipsch. Personally I like the reference series a lot, especially for rock music. They are not too bright to my ear.

With that said my favorites at the moment in that price range are Monitor Audio Silver Series. The older S models are being discontinued for the newer RS models. You can get a pair of S 6's, an SLCR, and two S 1's for close to your price range. They are worth auditioning.

 

[corysmith01]

You'll probably get a lot of questions, but instead of not answering anything, I'll try to make some assumptions and answer.

First, people are gonna wonder what you're using to drive these speakers. Do you have a powerful receiver, a not so powerful receiver, separates? This helps b/c a speaker like the klipsch has a very high sensitivity while the b&w doesn't, so with that in mind, one might steer you towards the klipsch...to make sure you're getting the most out of what you already have.

Also, you say you want 7.1, but will settle for 5.1, so, do you already have a sub? If not, does that budget of $1500-$1600 need to include that? What about center channel? Will that also have a separate budget, or is the figure you've thrown out to be all inclusive?

Not knowing those things, I'll assume you're working with that figure just for speakers. If so, and you're looking at Paradigm, specifically the Monitor series, you may only be able to afford the Mini Monitor for your budget. It's a fantastic speaker. I demo'd it and nearly bought it. For it's size and what it puts out, it's incredible. They're right at $399 a pair, but more than likely, if buying 4, you could get a deal. Even if not, that'd bring you right to $1600.

Another thing you may want to consider is the internet direct marketers; Axiom, Ascend, Rocket (av123), etc. You get a lot of bang for your buck going this route, and you get an actual in home demo. Don't like 'em? Send 'em back, no questions. Just another way to go. Getting back to the sub/center thing, Axiom offers complete packages that would be right in your budget range. Could be worth checking out:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/epicmaster_350main.html

Also, the suggestion above of checking audiogon is a great one.

And last, like the poster above mentioned, don't get pulled in any one direction by listening to various people. You have to buy these speakers and you have to listen to them, so it really doesn't matter one ounce what anyone else thinks about the speakers you choose. Buy a set, bring 'em home, crank 'em up and be happy with your decision.

 

[thephatp]

If you don't want to read all this, AT LEAST skip to the question bold! Thanks.

Thanks for the help. I'm really doing my best with what I'm hearing. The hardest part is figuring out what they'll sound like when I get them home. My most difficult problem is figuring out what they will sound like on a floor that is completely CERAMIC TILE. That really does NOT help my decision. All the places I'm auditioning speakers have them in rooms that are dampened, or at the very least, carpeted. And so far (in an average carpeted room), I've loved the Klipsch speakers (night and day) over B&W. But I'm really starting to think they may be too bright for my room. One guy said I should be able to adjust my receiver to dampen the highs a bit, but I don't know if that will solve the problem completely. Which brings me to your questions... (oh, and I'm going to have an area rug, but that's it).

- I'm going to pushing the system with a Denon 2805 (haven't gotten it yet).
- I'm trying to do all 5.1 with $1500-$1700 budget (but only speakers).

Here's another big problem. Bjorn's (independent store in San Antonio, TX) is having a sale right now where they do "Buy one speaker, get another half price." So basically, I can put together a nice system for a decent price, but I have to decide BEFORE the end of June. Otherwise, I think I'm just going to have to wait on a nicer system, or do more piecing.

So you may ask, why not buy some, audition them in home, and if I don't like them send them back (even if it's not through the online stores like you mentioned). Well, the problem there is that I'm building a new house, and we're not closing until July 19th. I've already worked something out with the guy at Bjorn's where I can try them for a month or so and if I don't like them, take them back. The good thing is that Bjorn's carries B&M, MK, Klipsch, Boston Acoustic, and a few others. So I have a lot of choices, but not necessarily all in the same price range.

Ok, and this is really tripping me up. I can get the following Klipsch setup for $1504 AFTER tax:

RF-25
RC-25
RB-25
RW-8 (RW-10 for $163 more)

That's really tough to beat, and that's why I want to decide before the end of June. But again, I'm really thinking that these might be too bright in a room with ALL ceramic tile (BTW, the kitchen, breakfast, and dining are all ceramic tile as well).

**********************************************
So, can I adjust the sound enough through the Denon 2805 to dampen some of the brightness without hurting the overall sound?
**********************************************

If so, I'll probably go with them, because I've heard them and I LOVE them. But if the acoustics of the room won't let me get the sound I love, then why bother. Ok, and so that's the biggest problem. I can listen to these in the stores all I want, but I won't know what they'll sound like in the room until I get there. So should I just look for "warmer" speakers?

WHAT DO I DO?????

Thanks again!

 

[jaxvon]

If you really like the Klipsch speakers, then maybe you should go for them. Just spend some money on acoustical treatments for the walls. They don't have to be "acoustic panels", but perhaps a throw. Bookshelves are great sound diffusers, are functional, and look good too. The area rug is a MUST.

In terms of other options, you could always try going for Axiom. With your budget, you could get the M22Ti bookshelves, the VP150 center (the bigger one), and the QS8 surrounds for $1258.75 to your door. Then add a subwoofer from Hsu or SVS and you're still coming in under $1700.

 

[mulester7]

.....Thephatp, what system do you have now?....and what systems have you had in the past?.....

 

[thephatp]

What do you mean by a throw (in terms of an accent for the wall)? I know what a throw is in terms of something you lay on a couch. Bookshelf is a good idea, but we don't have room for a big one.

Here's what our floorplan looks like:
http://aus.drhorton.com/plan.aspx?PlanId=1071

We do have a fireplace; the TV will go on the obvious full wall; the wall to the dining is half wall.

Any other suggestions for dampening sound?

I've never had any system before. I used to room with a guy with a small setup, (two fronts, a sub, and maybe a center), but I can't remember what they were. That's the only experience I have with this so far, so I am, by no means, one that could experiment very effective for dampening sound (so I think). And I don't have any experience adjusting receivers to get the best mix. I'm definitely a newbie.

Thanks!

 

[mulester7]

"I've never had any system before. I used to room with a guy with a small setup, (two fronts, a sub, and maybe a center), but I can't remember what they were. That's the only experience I have with this so far, so I am, by no means, one that could experiment very effective for dampening sound (so I think). And I don't have any experience adjusting receivers to get the best mix. I'm definitely a newbie"


.....ok, go listen to your chosen speakers one more time and stand right in front of them as they crank to determine for sure they are the chosen ones that your ears are choosing....then buy them and take them home....they won't sound that different no matter what the conditions be it palace or doghouse....it's not like you listen to them in the store normally and can only listen to them turned around backwards at home....any tuning to be done to correct brightness usually boils down to damping surfaces in some way that would probably need to be done with any speakers....I wish I felt about my present system the way you are about to feel about your first.....

.....guys, give me a little slack on the "no matter what the conditions".....

 

[Takeereasy]

Jaxvon meant a throw rug I believe. That should help dampen some of the sound from the ceramics. Call it a tapestry and the wife or gf will love it. Step back, examine, now it's art.

I'm surprised a couple of guys on this dite havent suggested The Bic Acoustech System to you. Supposedly it's a close match to the Klipsch Reference system. The place I'm posting from is just one place that sells this setup, you could look around to get a better deal on shipping or price. By the way the sub that comes with the Acoustech system will kill either of those Klipsch subs you mentioned. Even if you went klipsch all the way around at least go with that 10". That 8" sub makes me unhappy. Have you considered going with a sub from a different company like SVS or HSU or Velodyne. You can get better performance for the price of that Klipsch and it is not at all necessary that your sub matches your speakers. Sure the driver is pretty with that Klipsh, and it doesn't take up much room, but I've got a $150 CDN polk sub that would eat that 8" alive, and it's (meaning mine) a crappy sub.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Take,

You are absolutely right. Sorry for not chiming in, but the Acoustech system is a better bet if you like the sound of the Klipsch speakers. If you want a killer sub $1000 5.1 setup, that would be hard to beat. If horn tweeters are a bit too much for your ears, either add tapestries to the walls, or go with a Venturi system that MacManNM reviews a month back. www.bicamerica.com. The towers, center channel, and bookshelves are hard to beat for imaging and bass response. I'd recommend the 84's for the towers and 62 series for the center and bookshelves. Both outstanding choices for the money.

Give this site to your wife. Pretty neat stuff there, and reasonably priced.
http://www.realtapestry.com/ECscripts/ECware.exe/dcp?id=001&sku=44250&type=A1QN2&lc=EN

 

[thephatp]

Jaxvon meant a throw rug I believe. That should help dampen some of the sound from the ceramics. Call it a tapestry and the wife or gf will love it. Step back, examine, now it's art.

I've definitely considered it. However, I'm having a problem finding a place to hang it. The left wall is a half wall; there is no wall in the back (open to kitchen bar with no upper & to breakfast nook); the right wall is covered with windows. So I'll have an area rug and curtains, and upholstered (not leather) furniture, but that's about it.

I'm surprised a couple of guys on this dite havent suggested The Bic Acoustech System to you. Supposedly it's a close match to the Klipsch Reference system. The place I'm posting from is just one place that sells this setup, you could look around to get a better deal on shipping or price.

I have had this recommended (by MacManNM first, I believe...on a different thread). I've looked at them, but I haven't found a way to audition them. I'm not moving into my new house until mid-July, so I can't try them out before them if I order and demo at home. And the great sale on the Klipsch/B&W is going off at the end of JUNE.
What else can you tell me about them?

How do they compare to Axiom? I called up Axiom and spoke with Alan Lofft for about an hour. Of course, he's going to push his line harder than anything else, but the general consensus from him was that Axiom speakers are quite neutral (rather than warm or bright), and that with my slight hearing loss (which caused increased sensitivity to noise--he said he has the same thing), the Klipsch may be a little too bright.

I've seen a LOT of good comments about Axiom and none to very little against them. Does anyone know how these compare? They'd be a little more pricy (since I could get the B&W / Klipsch for buy one get one half off right now), but if it's much better, I'd prefer that. I'm trying to set up a demo for that right now. But input is greatly appreciated.

By the way the sub that comes with the Acoustech system will kill either of those Klipsch subs you mentioned. Even if you went klipsch all the way around at least go with that 10". That 8" sub makes me unhappy. Have you considered going with a sub from a different company like SVS or HSU or Velodyne. You can get better performance for the price of that Klipsch and it is not at all necessary that your sub matches your speakers.

Yes, I have considered the HSU subs, and I have heard TONS about them. Seems like that is the favored sub across the board. I haven't read a single negative comment about it. So maybe I will go that route no matter which way I go with the other speakers.

Keep the ideas coming. Right now, I trying to find out more about the Axiom (and possibly BIC Acoustech) to see if they are worth passing up the sale on the B&W and Klipsch. BTW, I listened to some Paradigm Monitor-7 and Monitor-9. I have NO IDEA how people are comparing the Monitor-7 to the Klipsch RF-25, but there is NO CONTEST. I liked the RF-25 better than both the Paradigm's. So I guess I've ruled them out!

Thanks for the help!

 

[thephatp]

And just in case I didn't make it clear, PLEASE KEEP THE THOUGHTS COMING!!

 

[T2T]

You are absolutely right. Sorry for not chiming in, but the Acoustech system is a better bet if you like the sound of the Klipsch speakers.

Within the course of a few weeks, I had the Klipsch RF-35, RC-35 speakers in my house and the Acoustech speakers. I quickly sold the Klipsch speakers and kept the Acoustech speakers. In my opionion, the Acoustech speakers had a much better sound-stage, imaging and sound quality over the Klipsch. I've loved and followed Klipsch for many years, but was taken aback on how good the Acoustech speakers sounded.

I'm driving them with a Pioneer Elite 54TX and have an infinite baffle subwoofer w/2 15" drivers powered by about 450 watts to each driver.

 

[thephatp]

Within the course of a few weeks, I had the Klipsch RF-35, RC-35 speakers in my house and the Acoustech speakers. I quickly sold the Klipsch speakers and kept the Acoustech speakers. In my opionion, the Acoustech speakers had a much better sound-stage, imaging and sound quality over the Klipsch. I've loved and followed Klipsch for many years, but was taken aback on how good the Acoustech speakers sounded.

What does your setup look like with Acoustech? Is it essentially like the Acoustech System - 6 speakers (HT-75s, HT-86, HT-63s, & H-100)?
Are there dealers that carries these so that I can audition them? (I can't move into my new house until mid-July, so I can't demo them at home yet.)

Are they bright, warm, or neutral? How do they compare in sound to the RF-35?

What is "imaging"? I'm really new at this and haven't caught on to all the terminology yet.

How do they compare to the Axiom? Anyone?

Thanks!

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

What does your setup look like with Acoustech? Is it essentially like the Acoustech System - 6 speakers (HT-75s, HT-86, HT-63s, & H-100)?
Are there dealers that carries these so that I can audition them? (I can't move into my new house until mid-July, so I can't demo them at home yet.)

Are they bright, warm, or neutral? How do they compare in sound to the RF-35?

What is "imaging"? I'm really new at this and haven't caught on to all the terminology yet.

How do they compare to the Axiom? Anyone?

Thanks!

*To find an Acoustech Dealer in your area, please call (888) 461-4628.

I've heard them, of all places, in a Costco. Not the greatest listening environment, but good enough to realize the quality and bang for the buck. They are not as crisp as the Klipsch horn tweeters. They had amazing bass, even in a warehouse type setting.

 

[T2T]

How do they compare to the Axiom? Anyone?

Also, in the same time-period, I had the Axiom M22Ti speakers and VP150 center channel speaker. They were good speakers, but just not great. I wish Axiom made a M33Ti model with (2) 6.5" drivers - and a matching center channel speaker. Now, that would be a killer combo. The (2) 5.25" drivers in the M22Tis, were ... well ... just not for me.

The Acoustechs were listed on Amazon when I purchased mine and they came with free shipping. I only purchased the 3 front speakers for $385, and no shipping.

I didn't find the treble on the Acoustechs to be any less and the RF-35s from Klipsch. I just found that Acoustech was able to implement it quite well - smooth, not too bright.

In fact, after I wrote some comments on the Klipsch in another forum, I was told that I should have used a power amp to drive them instead of just my receiver, and they would have opened up more. I'm not sure how true this is because the Pioneer 54TX receiver is no slouch, but the Klipsch did sound a little restricted. In fact, if I were to consider the Klipsch line again, I'd look at the RF-25 speakers, but the RF-35s with 2 - 8" drivers provides tons of bass - and many of us have great subs that more than make up for great bass, so the bass of the RF-35s is not needed, unless you don't have a sub.