Paradigm Ultra Cube 10 vs SVS PB10-ISD

C

Cavediver

Audioholic
I spent some time today in a local audio store with a salesman that was trying to sell me a pair of Paradigm Monitor 7's, a cc 370 and an Ultra Cube 10 Subwoofer. I listened to several pieces of music and watched several DVD clips to listen to the Monitor speakers and several different subwoofers. The Paradigm Ultra Cube 10 was by far the best and was actually quite amazing for such a little thing. But it sells for near $800. I've seen several posts here raving about the SVS PB10, but have never heard one. Does anyone here know of a comparison between the two subs or have any comments or suggestions or have any personal experience with the Paradigm Ultra Cube 10?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I'm going to have to make some time to get over to my dealer and give that guy a listen. Specs seem pretty nice. Based on the specs (650w RMS, -3dB at 22Hz), I would expect that guy to outperform the SVS in terms of output and tightness, but as soon as you factor in price, that's where you start changing things. If the PB-10 gives even 75% of the performance at nearly half the price, I'd still choose the PB-10. At $800, I'd still be looking SVS or HSU though, because their offerings at that point will be quite significant. I've owned the PB-10 and it is a very impressive sub for the price.
 
W

warpdrive

Full Audioholic
I wasn't too impressed with the Paradigm. It really didn't seem to do that well below 25Hz.

There is no substitute for size. I'd say buy this if you must have a small sub.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
I just got back from hearing the the Ultracube.

Its junk. The PB-10 is where I would invest.

More later, need to eat.

SheepStar
 
C

Cavediver

Audioholic
"I just got back from hearing the the Ultracube. Its junk."

Why do you say this? I'm obviously new to this stuff and haven't heard very many good subs. So, why do you think its junk?
 
W

warpdrive

Full Audioholic
People throw around the words "POS/Junk" around here too easily.

Compared to the MUCH LARGER PB10, certainly the Paradigm brings nothing to the table in terms of raw performance. But most people looking at this sub *care* about the size, otherwise they would plunk down the same amount of money for Paradigm's own PW2200 which costs about the same.

As I said, if you want the smallest possible sub, only then get the Ultracube, or any of the Definitive Technology, Carver micro subs, but otherwise, the PB10 is probably going to achieve stronger results for less money.
 
C

Cavediver

Audioholic
The physical size of the sub doesn't matter to me. I'm not space limited. I just want a good sub for both music and movies. Additionally, the $800 price tag didn't scare me, so I'm willing to pay up to $800 or so for a good sub. What about the round SVS's?
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Cavediver said:
"I just got back from hearing the the Ultracube. Its junk."

Why do you say this? I'm obviously new to this stuff and haven't heard very many good subs. So, why do you think its junk?
Maybe read the REST of my post, you know, that part saying "More later, need to eat"...?

ANYWHO

I went down to a local audio shop (Audio Video Unlimited) acquiring about employment. While I was there I pretended to be a customer to see how I was treated. After spending a month at Best Buy I was in no rush to sign up for a job where I would have to be an *** hole.

This subwoofer was in a room roughly 16by12 and hooked up to a Denon 4306 (I think, the upconverting one).

First I started listening to rap. I wanted to see how low it could go considering its petite size. Well, it did alright, but it sounded like junk. I don't know if it was being over driven or the Passive radiators were broken, but it sounded like slapping, and the bass was sloppy and bloomed.

Even with rock, the sub had a terrible transient response. This was greeted by the Sales hole saying "This is the cleanest sub I have ever heard" He needs to get out more.

Now I'm not going to point fingers, but someone(s) might say "Oh your just some stupid kid. VooDoo magic will make this sub sound better Rable rable rable"

It won't. If you want a nice sounding, small subwoofer, look at Velodynes SPL series.

Here is some measurements to shut up the nay sayers.

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=13933&start=0&rid=0&SQ=0

Can you say power compression and group delay?

SheepStar
 
Fastnbulbous

Fastnbulbous

Audioholic
My dilemma is my space is limited -- the sub has to be under 12" wide. I can't imagine being unhappy with a 1000W powered sub compared to my old Infinity though.

I was all set to get a Sunfire Dominator for $500, and they sold out (discontinued) :(

So how do these compare?

Velodyne Minivee $800
10.375” x 10.063”, 1000W

Sunfire True Subwoofer Super Junior, $825
9” x 9”, 1500W
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Fastnbulbous said:
My dilemma is my space is limited -- the sub has to be under 12" wide. I can't imagine being unhappy with a 1000W powered sub compared to my old Infinity though.

I was all set to get a Sunfire Dominator for $500, and they sold out (discontinued) :(

So how do these compare?

Velodyne Minivee $800
10.375” x 10.063”, 1000W

Sunfire True Subwoofer Super Junior, $825
9” x 9”, 1500W
I would get the MiniVee. I was impressed with its sound.

SheepStar
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Cavediver said:
Ok. I looked at the graphs on the link you provided. So, having no experience with this kind of thing, they mean nothing to me at all. What do all the graph's mean?
If you look at all the graphs,

The first one is the FR (how loud the sub plays at what frequency). Ideally, you want this to be flat (unless you like it otherwise) and to extend as high as you need (IE: to where your main speakers pick up) and as low as possible, to a point. Everyone wants a sub that goes to 1 hertz. BUT, this is almost non existent so getting the lowest possible for the size of driver is what you should look for. Example, all 8inch subwoofers SHOULD be able to hit 35hz. All 10inch subwoofer should be able to hit below 30hz (27 or so). 12's should be able to hit low 20's (23Hz) and so on. But, the design of the driver and box dictate these parameters and some perform better, and worse.

Second is power compression. Power compression is where the voice coil heats, thus increasing resistance, thus resulting in a non linear increase in SPL vs. input power increase. (thanks WmAx).

The third and forth graphs are referring to Harmonic distortion. Basically you want this to be low. Obviously you can't have 0, but 10% and under is considered very good. Generally, the higher the distortion, the "boomier" the subwoofer will sound.

Fifth is Group Delay. This is how long the driver takes to change between notes. Often referred to as transient response. This can also contribute to boomy subs. Sometimes called "slow", this is a poor term for this application(slow) as the driver moves at different speeds to make different notes. If it was moving slow, it would be playing a different note all together.

Hope this helps, If anyone sees something incorrect, PM me, and I will fix it.

SheepStar
 
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C

Cavediver

Audioholic
SheepStar,

Thanks for the information. That helps a lot in understanding. But please excuse my ignorance one more time. You used an acronym "SPL"; what does SPL refer to?
 
Mr. Lamb Fries

Mr. Lamb Fries

Full Audioholic
Cavediver said:
SheepStar,

Thanks for the information. That helps a lot in understanding. But please excuse my ignorance one more time. You used an acronym "SPL"; what does SPL refer to?
Sorry to jump in Sheep...
SPL= Sound Pressure Level. It is measured in Decibels (db's)

Laymans-SPL= Loudness.

IMO-you would want a good balance of SPL verses Distortion.

ie-High SPL (db) at low Distortion

Here is a link to Understanding Decebel:

http://www.jimprice.com/prosound/db.htm
 

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