Paradigm Studio 40's or 60's?

[jmorgan127]

I am looking at buying a Paradigm setup for about 60% Music and 40% Movies. When it comes down to it I am more interested in the quality of the music than the movies. I have been looking at and listening to the Paradigm Monitor and Studio speakers and am leaning heavily towards a modified the Studio setup. Because of budgetary constraints I can’t go all the way (Paradigm 100s, Studio Surrounds, etc.) so I was hoping for a little help on a couple of dilemmas.

First, I am torn between the Studio 40’s and the Studio 60’s. From what I hear the 40’s have a tighter mid and high end but lack base and the 60’s have a stronger low end but lose a little in the mid to high’s. Since I will have a Sub in the HT config, will I need the 60’s low end response?

Also let me tell you a little about my room. Think big and bright. It is an open “loft” type configuration with concrete floors and walls, with a lot of windows (most covered with plantation shutters). The room itself is about 35 x 25 (10’ ceiling with 1’ ribbed concrete) with a 15 x 15 “living room / listening area” in one corner on a low (6 inch) wood platform. Unfortunately I don’t have the option to move things around and will not be moving any time soon, so I need to pick a system that will work as best as possible in that space.

My current thoughts are to do something like this.

Fronts - Studio 40’s or 60’s
Center - Studio CC 470
Sub – HSU (or equivalent)
Surrounds – ADP 370’s (to save a couple of hundred)

Second, I need to select an appropriate receiver. The Denon 3805 seems to be the leading choice (since the Paradigms are a bit laid back). The local sales rep is pushing the new Marantz sr7500. I don’t want to allow the sales rep to sway my decision but I did listen to the Paradigms with the Marantz and very much liked them. I am trying to setup a comparison between the Marantz and the Denon. In the mean time, I was wondering what people thoughts are about the Marantz or Denon pairing with Paradigms in a very “live” room.

Sorry for the long post and, thanks in advance for your help.

Jeff

 

[Jason Coleman]

Jeff-

If you're more into music than movies, why not put your budget towards the Studio 100's and build the rest of the 5.1 later on? That's what I've done and I've been incredibly happy with the results. I picked up the 100's at the end of last year, got the 570 in June and will replace my ADP-170's with the 470's early next year. I'm about 90% music/10% movies, so it was a no-brainer. The 100's are awesome for 2-channel music.

However, between the 60's and the 40's, if you get the 40's, you'll need to purchase stands (which changes the budget). I didn't audition either, so I can't directly comment on their performance.

Finally, the Denon 3805 is an excellent match for the Studio speakers. The 100's have a big need for power at the low end, so you might want to consider an amp somewhere down the road (if you opt for the 100's).

Jason

 

[Unregistered]

Jeff

I agree with Jason. Go for the 100s. Get the rest later. Also, consider some type of room acoustics for your corners & walls. I have the 100s bi-wired with Yamaha's RX-Z9 receiver in a 27' x 17.5' room & the 2 channel stereo sound is excelent without acoustic enhancements in the corners or on the walls. I work on that acoustic coverings when I can afford to.

Brian

 

[hired goon]

If you're more into music than movies, why not put your budget towards the Studio 100's ... I'm about 90% music/10% movies, so it was a no-brainer. The 100's are awesome for 2-channel music.

I've seen some good reviews of the 100s, but I've also heard that they are quite 'boomy', because of the additional bass drivers. That's one of the reasons I am leaning toward the 40s or 60s, actually -- I'd prefer a tight, punchy bass rather than a big boomy bass. Is this your experience?

I'm still trying to audition Paradigm speakers (the closest dealer is a long distance away), but any further input on the strengths/weaknesses of these models would be appreciated.

-- Geoff

 

[Jason Coleman]

I don't find the 100's boomy at all. I use them full-range (set to "large") for stereo CD music and set them at small crossed at 80 Hz for movies. The low end is very tight and clean, not muddy or dull. They are excellent speakers for the money and a good place to start building a 5.1. FWIW, my room is pretty large...probably 22' x 18' x 20' vaulted open ceilings and the 100's do a great job of filling it up with sweet, sweet music.

Jason

 

[jmorgan127]

Thanks for the advice. I was trying to stay away from the 100's (mostly from a cost basis since I was thinking a 5.1). Looks like I may want to re-visit this.

Also, I want to make sure I am clear on something I said in the original post. I do care about movies and would like surround (I have been doing the sterio movie thing for a few years now). It is just that when it came to questions like buying a piece (sub, receiver, etc.) that is more musical than movie (or vise versa) I want to lean towards one that is more musical.

To be honest (at least to myself), I was probably hoping that someone would say that the Studio 40's with a good musical sub is as good or better than buying the 60's.

As for the Marantz (vs. Denon), any thoughts on that?

Thanks again, keep the thoughts coming.

Jeff

 

[Jason Coleman]

Jeff-

My 2 cents...if you're more into music, why not spend the extra money on nice full-range speakers (like the 100's or others) and maybe use your existing speakers or bookshelves for surrounds until you can swing the rest of the 5.1. As a music fan, I'd rather spend the $2K and get the really nice fronts and have 3.1 of mediocrity for a while than have $2K spread around all 5.1. If the 100's are totally out of your price range, maybe consider the 40's + stands for now and you can move them to the surround position if you decide to get the 100's down the road. I'd suggest listening to all three and going from there.

Jason

 

[stiletto pat]

JM,

Gotta agree with the rest of the posts - go for the 100s first, and upgrade the rest later. I bought the 100s, with the CC-470 and ADP-470s, combined with an HSU TN1220 sub and HSU amp, all driven by a B&K AVR-507 receiver. Incredible sound, not boomy. Just like the rest of the posts suggest, run the 100s as large. Great sound.

Good luck,

Pat

 

[MarkOcena]

40's and sub

I was in a similar circumstance when considering which speakers from Paradigm to go with. I noticed that you mentioned movies 40%, which is still significant. Would these be the genre of movies that need a good quality sub? I had a similar split between music and movies, while always desiring the best music performance. The Studio 40's are still great for music. Maybe not quite as dynamic or easy to set-up as the 100's (considering a subwoofer is needed to fill in the bass gap, proper integration of it into the system maybe more difficult that "simply" placing two floorstanders). The 100's might have a little bit higher sensitivity measurement; so they might play a bit louder. The 40's do needs stands though. The 60's are the 'taller' version of the 40's and I bet have a very similar sound. See how cost of 60's compares to 40's+stands and see if the quality is worth the difference in price.

The sub would be another important decision that effects both the quality of the movies and music. Just keep in mind that a few of the other guys mentioned that they run their 100's small for movies; that's a lot of bass drivers not exactly being used (10% of the "on" time only, though). I have yet to pick out which sub I want to use with my studio 40s. Many options out there, the best being probably: SVS, HSU, Paradigm's own offerings, Axiom's new ones, or Yamaha.

In short, because you seem to have a good amount of HT use planned for your system, IMHO, consider smaller front speakers that give you nearly the same quality as towers (when a sub is properly set up) a complete system right off the bat rather than just stereo music and movie.

 

[Duffinator]

Monitor 7 vs. Studio 60

I auditioned the Monitor 7's last weekend and was impressed by the clarity and bass compared to my current Mirage speakers. How does the Monitor series compare to the Studio series? Are the Studio series that much better considering the cost? I listen to about 50/50 music/movies.

 

[Unregistered]

Monitor 7 vs Studio 60

Listen to one of your favorite pieces of music with the Monitor 7s & then Studio 60s back and forth a couple of times. Your ears will tell you what sounds better to you. For me, I auditioned the several Paradigm speakers, set to large, at Sound & Cinema in Atlanta before deciding on Studio 100s.
Brian

 

[RaT]

We tossed and turned between the Monitor series and Reference series. Auditioning the Monitor 9's really made many others we tried not seem to be as "crisp". The 9's had plenty of power and just really seemed to be it. We wanted to hear the Monitor 11's and the comment from the salesman was, we typically don't carry it. We tend to direct folks to the Reference line. We listened to the Reference Studio 60 and 100. If things can get more crisp, they did. The 60 was was very nice, the 100 was a little better. He got the 60's after being all set on the Monitor 9's. He was that impressed.

 

[Duffinator]

Thanks for the comments. My local dealer has the Monitor and Studio series in seperate rooms. I'll ask them to move them next to each other. Any other comments or opinions?

 

[jmorgan127]

Getting Closer

I started my search in the Monitor price range, but when I heard the Studio 60's I could not got back. Now I am stuck with the 40, 60, 100 Question. Oh well.

First let me thank everyone for their help. It looks like I am going to have a tough decision. From what I hear, the 100's should be the target for the best sound, but no one has realy said anything negative about the 40's vs. 60's in a 5.1 setup. It also sounds like the 40's plus a good sub will give me the equivalent of 60's with sub. I will have to check on the price of the stands but I can tell you that he dealer is quoting a list difference of $400 list between the 40's and 60's. I doubt I would spend that all on stands. The remaining could be put into the sub.

By the way, great question about the genre of movies. That is probably why I don't care so much about movie sound. I don't really get into the booming action type movies. They are fun to watch but not what I would build a system around. I am looking for more of the emersive movie experience 5.1 will get me without going to the 7.1, 8.1, ... length.

The question for me will really be what is more important: A 5.1 with Good Fronts, or a sterio setup with great Fronts. I did have a couple of questions from what I have read above.

1) Someone wrote 3.1 when talking about movie watching with the 100's. Are you saying 2 fronts + 1 Center + a Sub (3.1), or are you saying just the 2 Fronts run through the Receiver in a specific configuration?

2) If I did still want 5.1 with the 100's. Are there options for using Paradigms inexpensive rears ADP170's, an inexpensive Paradigm Center, and just using the 100's for base or am I going to be wholey disapointed and be throwing my money away?

Again, thanks for the help and keep it comming.

 

[cam]

I started my search in the Monitor price range, but when I heard the Studio 60's I could not got back. Now I am stuck with the 40, 60, 100 Question. Oh well.

First let me thank everyone for their help. It looks like I am going to have a tough decision. From what I hear, the 100's should be the target for the best sound, but no one has realy said anything negative about the 40's vs. 60's in a 5.1 setup. It also sounds like the 40's plus a good sub will give me the equivalent of 60's with sub. I will have to check on the price of the stands but I can tell you that he dealer is quoting a list difference of $400 list between the 40's and 60's. I doubt I would spend that all on stands. The remaining could be put into the sub.

By the way, great question about the genre of movies. That is probably why I don't care so much about movie sound. I don't really get into the booming action type movies. They are fun to watch but not what I would build a system around. I am looking for more of the emersive movie experience 5.1 will get me without going to the 7.1, 8.1, ... length.

The question for me will really be what is more important: A 5.1 with Good Fronts, or a sterio setup with great Fronts. I did have a couple of questions from what I have read above.

1) Someone wrote 3.1 when talking about movie watching with the 100's. Are you saying 2 fronts + 1 Center + a Sub (3.1), or are you saying just the 2 Fronts run through the Receiver in a specific configuration?

2) If I did still want 5.1 with the 100's. Are there options for using Paradigms inexpensive rears ADP170's, an inexpensive Paradigm Center, and just using the 100's for base or am I going to be wholey disapointed and be throwing my money away?

Again, thanks for the help and keep it comming.

You have to get a good timbre match with your center and mains. You will be sadly disappointed by getting the cc 270 or cc 370 as a center to match the 100's. You have to match your 100's with the 470. You could get the 570 but you atleast need the 470 for your center. As for the surrounds, you could use a lesser model such as the adp 170's for surrounds. When you get your mains and matching center, see if you can borrow some adp's to find out in your home if you like the sound. Some people hate di-poles, myself, my adp 370's are the best piece in my system. You may not like di-poles in which case maybe a pair of 20's or mini monitors will due. Remember, your front three have to match to give you a seamless and believable soundstage. If your budget is reaching it's limits you may have to sacrifice those 100's for some 60's or 40's + stands (Looks wise the floorstander to me looks better then tall standmount speakers on stands). Consider the 60's, 470, and maybe some adp 370 or 470's. Killer!

 

[Jason Coleman]

I agree with Cam, but if you go for the 100's I'd recommend the 570 center instead of the 470. Paradigm suggests mating them with the 570 instead of the 470. I, too, debated which to get, and after buying the 570 I'd definitely recommend it. I've got the ADP-170's as surrounds, and they actually do a pretty good job. I'll pick up the 470's early next year, but the 170's do surprisingly well. The dipole/direct radiating decision is a matter of taste and also depends on your room setup and usage (multichannel or movies).

Happy Listening!

Jason

 

[stiletto pat]

Timber Matching

Jason,

That's an interesting point you make about Paradigm suggesting matching the cc-570 with the 100s. Both Paradigm dealers I worked with strongly suggested the CC-470 over the 570, due to the mid and high frequency drivers in the 470 doing a better job reproducing the vocal material, which is usually the predominant center channel information. I had to admint that when I listened to demos of both Center Channel speakers, I thought that I was getting better results with the CC-470 when mated with my 100s and ADP-470s. They are all matched mids and tweets.

Anyway, I really like the CC-470, and would recommend it to others getting ready to make the plunge.

Pat

 

[RaT]

For those of you who decided on the Studio 100's over the Studio 60's, was there an obvious sound difference? We tried both and quite frankly, did not think one sounded better then the other. The 100's were powered by a significantly larger amp(s) then the 60's which were hooked to a Integra with about 120 watts. In the end, we decided on the 60's, CC and ADP 470's as well as the PW 2200. Out of curiosity, what are folks paying for 60's and 100's?

 

[jmorgan127]

I think I have it

This This should be one of the final installments in this thread, so first let me thank everyone for their help.

I think, I have it figured out! After many hours of deep thought, study, and listening, this is what I think I am going to do. This really pushes my budget but I think it is worth it.

Denon 3805 bi-amped to
Paradigm Studio 100’s (listened to the 100’s IMO worth the extra money)
Paradigm cc 470 Center
Paradigm adp 170 Rears
Outlaw LFM-1 or HSU VTF-3 Sub (trying to save a few bucks an go with good bang for your buck options)

* if the bi-amping does not work (have heard it can produce a hum in some situations), I will go with 2 Outlaw M-Block 200W single channel amps.

Any, final thoughts would be appreciated, again thanks for all the help.

Thanks again

Jeff

 

[dponeill]

I auditioned the Monitor 7's last weekend and was impressed by the clarity and bass compared to my current Mirage speakers. How does the Monitor series compare to the Studio series? Are the Studio series that much better considering the cost? I listen to about 50/50 music/movies.

I listened to the Monitor 7, Studio 60 and Studio 20 last week. I listened to the 7s first and thought that they sounded pretty good but was not all that impressed. Then I listened to the Studio 60s and found them to be a big step up from the Monitors in clarity and smoothness. The Studio 20 sounds the same as the 60 if you concentrate on the mids and highs and don't let the extra bass of the 60 affect your judgment. The 20, considering its size, actually has decent bass and has not been tampered with to try to make it sound like it has more bass than it realy does. Used with a good sub I feel it would give better results than the 60 by itself.

Dennis