Paradigm S8 vs DTs 7000SC or 7001SC ?

[OutlawNut]

Any comments on this ? I see Paradigm has no issues providing SPL measurements of their S8. I found them on soundstagemagazine.com. Why the hell doesnt DT show ? Oh well. I am torn as to which speaker set to get. I guess I will have to drive down and listen to all three ..

 

[GlocksRock]

Not really sure about the Paradigm, but the only difference between the two def tech's are the size of the sub/amp, with the 7000 having the bigger sub, besides that they sound the same. I have teh 7001SCs as my mains, and trust me, they can thump hard, so unless you really need tons of bass, then save your money and just get the 7001s and maybe a dedicated sub.

 

[Midcow2]

SPL measurements

Any comments on this ? I see Paradigm has no issues providing SPL measurements of their S8. I found them on soundstagemagazine.com. Why the hell doesnt DT show ? Oh well. I am torn as to which speaker set to get. I guess I will have to drive down and listen to all three ..

There are a lot of reviews on DT that have specific measurements.

SPL measurements are not really a goo metric fro exacting comparisonthat is why there individual SPL meter. SPL depends on the distance, other speakers, room acoustics. If everything is equal then is can be a comparison, if not as is in most cases it is only an indiacator. A good metric is senstitivity or effciency. It is measured always at 1 watt and 1 meter.

 

[OutlawNut]

Actually

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/7222003115850.pdf
BP 7001 SC .. See how it drops off ? Bad drivers

http://www.definitivetech.com/reviews/reviews_PDFs/BP7000SC_HT1003.pdf
BP 7000 SC
No drop off .. Good driver!

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/paradigm_signature_s8/
No drop off .. Good driver!

 

[BobSD]

Your question really caught my attention, because I am in the process switching to the Paradigm S8s to replace my Def 7001s. The price difference is significant. Would say double. The base in the Paradigm I feel is not as good as the def but the highs and mids is the meat of the Par, so that is why in my opinion you must have a good sub-woofer with the Par and thats going to cost me an additional $3,000 plus for sub. As I said in another post I love my Definitives, and I definately will test the Par in my home before they replace my Defs. If you are interested my Def are less then two years old and all the original boxes, in mint condition, can give you references of this fact. Will be asking only $2,000 plus postage. Could send pictures also. Bob

 

[Midcow2]

could be the test??

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/7222003115850.pdf
BP 7001 SC .. See how it drops off ? Bad drivers

http://www.definitivetech.com/reviews/reviews_PDFs/BP7000SC_HT1003.pdf
BP 7000 SC
No drop off .. Good driver!

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/paradigm_signature_s8/
No drop off .. Good driver!

Except for the subwoofer the 7001SC and the 7000SC are the same speaker. So how can one have drop-off and the other not ? H'mm testing or variance in the specfic speakers tested?

 

[Seth=L]

Pride of ownership clouds judgement.

Having listened to both the Signature 8s and the Definitive Tech 7001, 7000 in the same room I would say the Def Techs are no match for the Paradigms in tonal accuracy. The Paradigms won't have the big bass as mentioned by another poster, but you can fill that in with a good subwoofer. You could get the Servo 15 if you want to stick with the same brand, but honestly I would look at SVS or HSU for a subwoofer.

The Def Techs and the Digms can both reach levels of excrutiating output, so no troubles here. The craftsmanship and overall beauty (while I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder) I give the edge to the the Digms.

I also have a big problem with the built in subwoofers on the Def Tech super towers, the amplifiers kick out at high volumes making a horrid noise, the rest of the speaker will be sounding just fine and that amplifier will make the woofer pop, it's very annoying and I would never put up with it. Both pairs I listened to had this problem, I doubt they are both flukes and I also highly doubt the store had an electrical problem.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/7222003115850.pdf
BP 7001 SC .. See how it drops off ? Bad drivers

http://www.definitivetech.com/reviews/reviews_PDFs/BP7000SC_HT1003.pdf
BP 7000 SC
No drop off .. Good driver!

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/paradigm_signature_s8/
No drop off .. Good driver!

The drop-off on the BP7001SCs could be room acoustics, though. Could be human-error on measurement too.

 

[Seth=L]

I wonder where all the Paradigm owners are, they need to wake up before this thread turns into another Def Tech fanboy thread.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Any comments on this ? I see Paradigm has no issues providing SPL measurements of their S8. I found them on soundstagemagazine.com. Why the hell doesnt DT show ? Oh well. I am torn as to which speaker set to get. I guess I will have to drive down and listen to all three ..

Yeah, you have to audition all three. Keep one thing in mind. All things need to be equal: Receiver/pre-pro/amp, music source (same CDs, etc.), Sound modes (Pure Direct, DSP, Bass management, etc.) and similar room sizes/acoustics/speaker placement.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I wonder where all the Paradigm owners are, they need to wake up before this thread turns into another Def Tech fanboy thread.

Well, I can tell you right now that Codexp loves his Paradigm Ref Sig speakers. He picked them over the BP7000SC, B&W 803D, and Revel F52 (? model).

Everyone is different. It's all cool.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Here I am

I wasnt going to comment as it is not even a close race Digms have this one all the way.

I wonder where all the Paradigm owners are, they need to wake up before this thread turns into another Def Tech fanboy thread.

 

[mazersteven]

I wonder where all the Paradigm owners are, they need to wake up before this thread turns into another Def Tech fanboy thread.

IMO the Paradigm Studio series is a real value. Paradigm Sign are not.

Well IMO there are to many other speaker in the same price range that out-shine the Def Tech's and Sign Paradigms.

Dynaudio

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I also have a big problem with the built in subwoofers on the Def Tech super towers, the amplifiers kick out at high volumes making a horrid noise, the rest of the speaker will be sounding just fine and that amplifier will make the woofer pop, it's very annoying and I would never put up with it. Both pairs I listened to had this problem, I doubt they are both flukes and I also highly doubt the store had an electrical problem.

What? I have never heard this poping sound from either my BP7000SC or 7001SCs. The only ones that make a (safe) poping noise are the CLR center speakers. This occurs when you manually Unplug them or turn off the power manually. So I just let the power turn off automatically.

A lot of things can cloud judgement, not just pride of ownership.

Unless you compare them in a bias-controlled, double-blinded environment, you will have some partial judgement due to a number of personal factors.

Sheep will not even LISTEN to any DefTech speakers because he HATES the COMPANY DefTechs because they don't disclose detail graphs and measurements. By listing only the "overall" frequency response instead of the +/-3dB F.R., there is a huge misunderstaning.

But to the O.P., please don't let any of us persuade/dissuade you in any way. You must audition these speakers and make sure the store allows for a 30-Day Return policy just in case the speakers don't work out in YOUR room.

 

[Seth=L]

IMO the Paradigm Studio series is a real value. Paradigm Sign are not.

Well IMO there are to many other speaker in the same price range that out-shine the Def Tech's and Sign Paradigms.

Dynaudio

I agree, the Studios are more affordable and employ many of the same design parameters. The Studio series speakers were in that same room I listened to the Def Techs as well, the Studio 20's with a good subwoofer would trump those Def Techs.

I haven't heard Dynaudio, but I am sure they are pretty good based on what I have read and seen.

 

[Seth=L]

What? I have never heard this poping sound from either my BP7000SC or 7001SCs. The only ones that make a (safe) poping noise are the CLR center speakers. This occurs when you manually Unplug them or turn off the power manually. So I just let the power turn off automatically.

A lot of things can cloud judgement, not just pride of ownership.

Unless you compare them in a bias-controlled, double-blinded environment, you will have some partial judgement due to a number of personal factors.

Maybe you have never taken them to that level of output. The room these speakers where in was quite large, and make no mistake, the protection circuit was kicking in. It probably uses the same wonky protection the Supercubes do, nothing but floppy uncontrolled bass from those things and when you press them to perform like a high dollar subwoofer should, the protection circuit kicks in, annoying as hell.

I had no bias going in the room, but after the popping on both sets as well as the super cubes (which I really thought would be kick *** subwoofers) I was very disappointed. Maybe Def Tech has fixed these problems since a year ago, but you've had your speakers for a while.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

http://www.definitivetech.com/reviews/reviews_PDFs/BP7000SC_HT1003.pdf

http://www.definitivetech.com/reviews/reviews_PDFs/BP7000SC_AVR307.pdf

Darryl Wilkinson:

"In fact, plunk the Pope down in front of a pair of these mighty towers belting
“You and Your Folks/23rd Psalm,” and it’s quite possible that he’ll sign up on the spot to be a keynote speaker at the next Southern Baptist convention. These speakers are that good."

"...truly refined, high-end-caliber speakers with huevos the size of Volkswagen Beetles, speakers that will be equally welcome in asymphony conductor’s home or the wildest frat house."

"[If you] buy a pair of Def Tech [BP7000SC] speakers, they’ll sound as if you
spent three or four times as much..."

"The fact is that the BP7000SCs can kick your *** and then pick you up and
gently lick your wounds..."

"I don’t know of any other speakers—without help from an external subwoofer—that can generate that kind of explosive bellicosity."

Andrew Robinson:

"The BP7000SCs arrived at my house right on the heels of some of audiophiles’ most touted and coveted loudspeakers: Magnepan 3.6, Gallo Reference, Martin Logan and even Wilson Audio."

"The BP7000SC’s tweeter is nearly without rival in terms of air, extension and ultimate sweetness."

"Where the BP7000SCs really shine is throughout the midrange, which is delightfully rich without becoming overtly bloated..."

"The sonic presentation is seamless. The BP7000SCs can image in ways that defy their large stature, seemingly disappearing, leaving only music and one hell of a center image behind."

"The BP7000SCs’ soundstage is second to none. If given space, and they do need space, the BP7000SCs’ soundstage can and will best my longstanding reference, the Magnepan 3.6s. Not only did the BP7000SCs’ soundstage extend further and wider than the 3.6s had, they had a firmer grip on the music even in the furthest reaches of their capabilities than the 3.6s could ever hope to achieve."

"I cranked the volume to the edge of my listening envelope for the guitar solo and found I could actually take it a little further, for the BP7000SCs never became harsh or fatiguing."

"The Definitive Technology BP7000SC SuperTowers...are as close to a true
masterpiece of audio engineering as anything I’ve encountered in all my years in audio. They do equal justice to music and movies and everything else in between."

"Compare the Definitive Technology BP7000SC loudspeakers with the best from the world of ultra-high end and you might find overall the Definitive speaker system is the most well-rounded in a group that includes speakers costing as much as a new [Toyota] Prius."

"With a big yet detailed sound, it’s just hard to beat such a rocking loudspeaker system. At their price, the Definitive Technology BP7000SCs are simply amazing."

Some of these prefessional reviewers are gifted writers, and some are pretty lame. I read the HT Mag review on the Paradigm S8, and my impression is that the writer is pretty lame. We know the S8 is great speaker. It is a fact. But how does it compare to other speakers? Magnepans? Wilson Audio?

Bottom line, you gotta audition for yourself, but you better make sure they have the 30-day return policy.

And if you are planning on moving soon, ask if they an acidental insurance plan just in case the movers totally damage your tweeters.

 

[codexp3]

I listened to every single speaker I could think of in the sub 8k range. I found a lot I liked, but only one I loved. The s8 was my favorite speaker (with the exception of the 16k Wilson Sophia 2). For detail they are VERY tough to beat. I love martial arts movies and female vocals, so the beryllium tweeter sealed the deal for me. Listening to the opening scene of Under World on Blu Ray (which I’ve seen 10K times) I was clearly able to distinguish individual sounds I couldn’t pick out on a lesser speaker. (Maybe an extra 5-10% level of detail, very hard to actually quantify. For me the extra detail was worth the extra 4800 over the studio line.

That being said, If I had never listened the Signatures I’d be more than happy with the Studios. Price to performance the Studios crush the Signatures. It’s very hard for some to justify spending 3x the price for an additional 10% in performance, unless cost isn’t a concern. I liked the DefTechs, Revels, Dynaudios, and B&Ws, but I wouldn’t trade the Signatures for any one of them. If you’re doing a medium sized room and plan on using a sub I’d check out the S6s, no point having the S8s if you’re going to cross over at 80hzs. The 7000s and S6s retail for close to the same price, so If you want a dollar to dollar comparison I’d go that route.

 

[Warpdrv]

I have listened to the Def Techs, and they are pretty good speakers, but I didn't care as much for the BiPolar design of them...

I bought the Paradigm Studio 100's in a 5.1 surround over them. They are fantastic. Paradigm's provide a excellent wide and deep sound stage. I liked them so much, I bought the Paradigm Sig S4's & C3 for my bedroom, and I couldn't be happier, they are similar in sound to the 100's but tighter and cleaner, not by a huge margin, definitely an improvement... But the cabinetry is far superior, they are gorgeous, and sound amazing. I couldn't justify buying new, so I shopped Audiogon and got them second hand. Also my Sigs are .v1 and don't have the new tweeter and midrange driver. But they were new in the box. You are paying more for the extraordinary looking cabinet, and an improvement in SQ. I think they are superior to the Def Tech's but in all honesty, its a different design, and your comparing apples to oranges here and most importantly thats just my opinion.

There is a set of Sig S6's with a C3 on Audiogon, which might be worth looking at.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1215565797


As far as a sub, I'm surprised that no-one mentioned that you do not have to match the speakers with the Paradigm Sub. If you willing to pay $3K you should really rethink that, and get a SVS Ultra 13 for 1/2 that.
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb13ultra.cfm

Its one of the best subs out there for SQ and low bass impact.
If your looking for performance, that is the sub to check out.....
Id take that over the Paradigm servo any day...

Did you mention what size room you have.... Like Codexp3 stated, the S8's might be overkill unless you have an enormous room like I do for my Studio 100's...
At the end of the day, you really need to listen for yourself, they are your ears, and no-one can tell you how they sound to you...

Enjoy your audition period. This is the fun part..

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Maybe Def Tech has fixed these problems since a year ago, but you've had your speakers for a while.

I bought my DTs last July, so it's also been a year. Man, time flies!