Paradigm In Wall Vs Monoprice THX in wall on a budget

C

c.demille

Enthusiast
I am sorry if this question has been answered before. I tried searching the forum for information and may have missed it. I can see that the Monoprice THX speakers have had a fair amount of reviews and testing, but I have not seen a lot of testing or information on the Paradigm Home and Elite series in wall speakers. I know everyone will want to tell me to not go the in-wall route, but that's where I'm at. I have a Paradigm dealer that is willing to give me a really good price on some P80-IW speakers for left and rights on a family room style theater (not dedicated theater room). What are opinions on the P80-IW speakers vs using a Monoprice THX-365IW? The Paradigm dealer tells me the P80-IW is in a different galaxy than the off the shelf online crap. From the reviews i've seen I don't know if that's entirely true in regards to the THX stuff from Monoprice. I do know the P80 speaker frames are very nice, entirely cast aluminum with aluminum wall feet vs plastic on other brands, but how important to the sound is an aluminum frame? Thanks!
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
I am sorry if this question has been answered before. I tried searching the forum for information and may have missed it. I can see that the Monoprice THX speakers have had a fair amount of reviews and testing, but I have not seen a lot of testing or information on the Paradigm Home and Elite series in wall speakers. I know everyone will want to tell me to not go the in-wall route, but that's where I'm at. I have a Paradigm dealer that is willing to give me a really good price on some P80-IW speakers for left and rights on a family room style theater (not dedicated theater room). What are opinions on the P80-IW speakers vs using a Monoprice THX-365IW? The Paradigm dealer tells me the P80-IW is in a different galaxy than the off the shelf online crap. From the reviews i've seen I don't know if that's entirely true in regards to the THX stuff from Monoprice. I do know the P80 speaker frames are very nice, entirely cast aluminum with aluminum wall feet vs plastic on other brands, but how important to the sound is an aluminum frame? Thanks!
The Monoprice speakers are very nice and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them, especially considering their THX ratings as you'll know that distortion is in check. Your dealer is selling his gear and in this instance he is dead wrong. Just remember you'll need subs too..
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Can the dealer specify just what it is that puts them in another galaxy? I doubt it.
 
C

c.demille

Enthusiast
Yeah I didn't have to be convinced about the legitimacy of the thx 365 speakers but I was wondering if the paradigm in walls were legit as well or if the monoprice was even better?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Yeah I didn't have to be convinced about the legitimacy of the thx 365 speakers but I was wondering if the paradigm in walls were legit as well or if the monoprice was even better?
I doubt those paradigm will have the power and spl. of the Monoprice. However the Paradigms have back boxes. If you get the Monoprice I would build back boxes. This will improve the speakers and above all avoid you blasting all that power into the wall space.

In wall installations are tricky. I did my first one fours years ago. I did use back boxes and designed them as sealed. The sub is a TL.

The biggest problem I had was to deal with the wall reflections, which caused havoc. I found I needed to crossover at 150 Hz, which I could do as the sub was right below the center and between the left and right. The driver had reserve of top end extension. It has now settled into a really good system.

Unfortunately you bought those Paradigm subs before you posted here. I actually doubt those subs will have enough top extension to even cross properly to the other speakers. The F3 of those paradigm speakers is 94 Hz.

When I look at commercial in wall designs, I don't think they are very intelligently thought out generally. I see cobbled together designs aplenty.

I do have one reservation about those Monoprice speakers, their impedance is 3 ohms in a good deal of the power band. So they will require potent and stable amplification. If you drive a receiver hard it could blow up. I note you have a pretty big space. What you are attempting is a far bigger technical challenge than you realize.

The dealer will just want to sell you what he has. They all do.

I am truly concerned you are going to spend a lot of money and be very disappointed with the end result.

It would be much easier if you were not wedded to this in wall design, especially as a novice. I can tell you to get a high quality in wall system is a significant mountain to climb.

It was a pity you had done the deal on those subs. I have serious reservations about the design of those subs.
 
C

c.demille

Enthusiast
I doubt those paradigm will have the power and spl. of the Monoprice. However the Paradigms have back boxes. If you get the Monoprice I would build back boxes. This will improve the speakers and above all avoid you blasting all that power into the wall space.

In wall installations are tricky. I did my first one fours years ago. I did use back boxes and designed them as sealed. The sub is a TL.

The biggest problem I had was to deal with the wall reflections, which caused havoc. I found I needed to crossover at 150 Hz, which I could do as the sub was right below the center and between the left and right. The driver had reserve of top end extension. It has now settled into a really good system.

Unfortunately you bought those Paradigm subs before you posted here. I actually doubt those subs will have enough top extension to even cross properly to the other speakers. The F3 of those paradigm speakers is 94 Hz.

When I look at commercial in wall designs, I don't think they are very intelligently thought out generally. I see cobbled together designs aplenty.

I do have one reservation about those Monoprice speakers, their impedance is 3 ohms in a good deal of the power band. So they will require potent and stable amplification. If you drive a receiver hard it could blow up. I note you have a pretty big space. What you are attempting is a far bigger technical challenge than you realize.

The dealer will just want to sell you what he has. They all do.

I am truly concerned you are going to spend a lot of money and be very disappointed with the end result.

It would be much easier if you were not wedded to this in wall design, especially as a novice. I can tell you to get a high quality in wall system is a significant mountain to climb.

It was a pity you had done the deal on those subs. I have serious reservations about the design of those subs.
Thank you for the feedback. I think I should clarify just one thing. I am wedded to my wife and want to remain that way, therefore I am wedded to in wall speakers, haha. You are probably right on the subs but I guess I'll give them a try at this point. Fortunately I am not into them a large amount of money. I got the two subs (4 woofers) and the x850 amp for $1400. Worst case scenario I can try hiding a traditional sub in the room at a later point if it's that bad. And yes I know.... I could have purchased a much better traditional sub for that price, but that whole wedded thing, you know...
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Thank you for the feedback. I think I should clarify just one thing. I am wedded to my wife and want to remain that way, therefore I am wedded to in wall speakers, haha. You are probably right on the subs but I guess I'll give them a try at this point. Fortunately I am not into them a large amount of money. I got the two subs (4 woofers) and the x850 amp for $1400. Worst case scenario I can try hiding a traditional sub in the room at a later point if it's that bad. And yes I know.... I could have purchased a much better traditional sub for that price, but that whole wedded thing, you know...
OK. These are the in walls you need.

The ones you picked out, have a high risk of blowing a receiver. These have a much more benign impedance curve. In addition they have an F3 of between 50 and 60 Hz, so they will mate much better with those subs you have picked out. They should be able to power that large space, which I don't think the paradigms will. This monoprice are probably your best choice of any available commercial in wall for your space. Your dealer is misleading you badly.
 
C

c.demille

Enthusiast
just to clarify, are you saying the THX-365IW will blow a receiver and I should choose the THX-465IW? Or were you referring to the Paradigms? I like the price point of the 365's especially since they're currently on sale.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
just to clarify, are you saying the THX-365IW will blow a receiver and I should choose the THX-465IW? Or were you referring to the Paradigms? I like the price point of the 365's especially since they're currently on sale.
No the smaller Monoprice speakers. They have a 3 ohm impedance in a large part of the power band and likely to be a receiver buster at power. The larger monoprice inwalls have a much more benign impedance curve. Paradigm don't publish one, but those speakers are NOT suitable for your needs. You need the THX-465IWs
 
C

c.demille

Enthusiast
what about just adding an amplifier such as this : https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=18514 That would still be significantly cheaper than the 465's. If you can't tell i'm having a hard time spending $600 per speaker. That would be about a $400 savings to get an amp and the 365's
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
what about just adding an amplifier such as this : https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=18514 That would still be significantly cheaper than the 465's. If you can't tell i'm having a hard time spending $600 per speaker. That would be about a $400 savings to get an amp and the 365's
I doubt that amp is highly robust. However that extensive drop to 3 ohms on those speakers is a red flag to me, and may be indicative of other problems. In addition the larger speakers will fill your space much better. I think the money on the larger speakers will be well spent. I am very suspicious of any speaker with drops below four ohms like that. If one of my designs had an impedance drop like that, I would be investigating it further to make sure the crossover was not in resonance. To tell you the truth, I would modify or can the design in any event. I personally would not be happy with that state of affairs.

A lot is not most speakers are actually weak in the wind. I personally design for power and effortless output.
 
C

c.demille

Enthusiast
I haven't made that purchase yet but am looking at doing either a 5.2.2 or 5.2.4 setup and am considering the following:
Yamaha RX-V6A (5.2.2)
Onkyo TX-RZ840 or TX-NR7100 (5.2.4)
Denon AVR-X3700H (5.2.4)

I have been looking at refurbished models to keep the cost down. I like the Yamaha RX-A6A but even the refurbished price is a little high for me. I'm currently leaning towards the Yamaha RX-V6A
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I haven't made that purchase yet but am looking at doing either a 5.2.2 or 5.2.4 setup and am considering the following:
Yamaha RX-V6A (5.2.2)
Onkyo TX-RZ840 or TX-NR7100 (5.2.4)
Denon AVR-X3700H (5.2.4)

I have been looking at refurbished models to keep the cost down. I like the Yamaha RX-A6A but even the refurbished price is a little high for me. I'm currently leaning towards the Yamaha RX-V6A
Do NOT buy refurbished. Many were returned for intermittent faults which are not found and then show up when you go to use it. Forget refurbished.
If you are looking for receivers at the lower end of the market, then you definitely don't need speaker dropping to three ohms in a good portion of the power band.

In this project as in most, doing it right the first time will be the cheapest. I have a nose for junk and pretty much have been successful at avoiding it. I have equipment still working in my rig, I bought 60 years ago. I think I spend less over time than almost any member here. We have a thread on what have you bought. Well I have not bought anything new for over four years, when we built our new house.

Forget Onkyo by the way.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I haven't made that purchase yet but am looking at doing either a 5.2.2 or 5.2.4 setup and am considering the following:
Yamaha RX-V6A (5.2.2)
Onkyo TX-RZ840 or TX-NR7100 (5.2.4)
Denon AVR-X3700H (5.2.4)

I have been looking at refurbished models to keep the cost down. I like the Yamaha RX-A6A but even the refurbished price is a little high for me. I'm currently leaning towards the Yamaha RX-V6A
All those probably already have better amp sections than the monoprice amp you mention....but there are better amps out there as long as the avr has the appropriate pre-outs.

As to refurb, just watch your terms of sale and warranty carefully and hope any issues show up within the return period. My only refurb avr experience: I had two avrs that turned out defective within the return period and after that I just bought new for an extra $100. Many have had better experiences, tho. I'd prefer a full set of pre-outs for amp flexibility, the Yamaha doesn't offer that (but the RX-A6A does plus has the extra channels of processing you might want).
 
C

c.demille

Enthusiast
I was looking at the accessories4less website and most of the AV on there come with 1 or 3 year warranties. It kills me because Yamaha had the RX-V6A on sale brand new for about $200 off and it just went off sale. Most of my consideration between 5.2.4 and 5.2.2 is the receiver cost, which is quite a significant bump in price. That Yamaha RX-V6A is nearly 50% cheaper than new, or about $360 less, but like you mentioned may not be worth the risk. I'm not going for an all out amazing theater room, just something functional and reasonable performance for a beginner such as myself. Monoprice also has some "nicer" amps such as this one: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=43863 but maybe they're junk too.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I was looking at the accessories4less website and most of the AV on there come with 1 or 3 year warranties. It kills me because Yamaha had the RX-V6A on sale brand new for about $200 off and it just went off sale. Most of my consideration between 5.2.4 and 5.2.2 is the receiver cost, which is quite a significant bump in price. I'm not going for an all out amazing theater room, just something functional and reasonable performance for a beginner such as myself. Monoprice also has some "nicer" amps such as this one: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=43863 but maybe they're junk too.
I used A4L for the experience I mentioned. Watch the difference between a factory warranty and an aftermarket one. The Monolith line from Monoprice are a step up for both amps and subs from other Monoprice offerings....but is a better choice than the Monoprice one you linked earlier (but is still more in the avr power range). When going external amp I prefer something with much more power (at least double the avr, maybe triple). What kind of volume levels and distance from the speakers are involved?
 
C

c.demille

Enthusiast
The listening area would be about 13 to 14 feet back from the tv/ in wall speakers. The room is 18' deep.
 
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