Paradigm, Hsu or PSB??

[Unregistered]

I have been monitoring this forum quite readily now for the past month in hopes of findind a decent sub for my new system. I will be trying to moderately pressurize a medium sized room (18x12) and would really rather not have plaster and pictures falling everywhere. This brings me to my decision to get a 10" driver. I am seeking something that will perform well and not be at all boomy or loose and quite musical. My hope is to find something that will add low end presence & fullness to my speakers which cut off at 50hz rather room shaking bass.

I have narrowed it down to Paradigm PDR-10 (an AV Guide best Buy) Hsu STF2 or PSB 5i. All subs seem to have their own strengths. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated by this newbie. I would alos be willing to consider any suggestions.

Thank you very much for any help...

 

[cam]

I have been monitoring this forum quite readily now for the past month in hopes of findind a decent sub for my new system. I will be trying to moderately pressurize a medium sized room (18x12) and would really rather not have plaster and pictures falling everywhere. This brings me to my decision to get a 10" driver. I am seeking something that will perform well and not be at all boomy or loose and quite musical. My hope is to find something that will add low end presence & fullness to my speakers which cut off at 50hz rather room shaking bass.

I have narrowed it down to Paradigm PDR-10 (an AV Guide best Buy) Hsu STF2 or PSB 5i. All subs seem to have their own strengths. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated by this newbie. I would alos be willing to consider any suggestions.

Thank you very much for any help...

Even if you had a 15 inch sub it doesn't mean you have to crank it to drywall spitting levels. Having said that I would not purchase a 10 inch sub unless my room was no bigger then about 10 x 14. You will need more for your size room. If you are leaning towards the pdr-10 I would suggest getting the pdr-12. It shouldn't be anymore then about $50-$80. It will sound bigger, fuller, deeper and if you ever move to a slightly bigger room then there will be no need for an upgrade latter. And we have all done that.

 

[Unregistered]

Hmmm so your saying I should get at least a 12" driver even if I don't crank it up? I heard bigger subs are looser and boomier, at least that was the case with car audio.

Going up would also mean more money the Hsu STF3 would be $599 + shipping and the PSB 6i is $699+ shipping getting a bit out of my realm. PDR-12 maybe an option.

 

[Rob Babcock]

I think the relationship between driver size and sound quality in subs is highly misunderstood. I've heard very good sounding subs with 8" drivers, as good ones with 15" cones. While I'm not fond of it, look how tiny the Sunfire subs drivers are. Certainly the laws of physics dictates the amount of bass you can get for the size, and there's advantages to going bigger, to a point.

I can't recall the exact formula, you need either a large enclosure or a lot of power. In practical terms it's tough for a very small sub (say, 8" or smaller) to go really low with much authority. Sunfire goes with a small amount of enclosure and compensates with a massive amount of power. A really large sub (eg SVS or HSU) can generate a lot of SPL with a lot less power (although they both can generate massive SPL if you have lots of power).

There's nothing wrong with getting more sub than you need, as you can always turn it down. Going with more than you need now and having the headroom/room for growth is perhaps wiser than getting the minimum you can get by with and having to replace it later.

The 10" Hsu is an excellent choice, but goint to the next size up's not a bad idea if you can afford it.

 

[anamorphic96]

It does not always come down to driver size. Te biggest factor is how the sub is set up in relation to the room as well as where you have things crossed over and where the level is set. THE BIG THING IS PLACEMENT.

If your looking at HSU. You might want to look at the VTF-2.(499.00) Its quite the sub and has serious ouput for its size. It can also be optimized for music and movies if you like.

Thats my two cents.

Glenn

 

[cam]

Hmmm so your saying I should get at least a 12" driver even if I don't crank it up? I heard bigger subs are looser and boomier, at least that was the case with car audio.

Going up would also mean more money the Hsu STF3 would be $599 + shipping and the PSB 6i is $699+ shipping getting a bit out of my realm. PDR-12 maybe an option.

Any sub driven to distortion levels and past the woofers excursion levels will sound like $hit. You may at times ask a 10 incher to do more then it is capable of. As to the loose boomy sounds a sub may have, they can all sound loose and boomy. Placement is the key and set up (crossover level) are very important. Some people say that bigger subs are slow, let me tell you that that is total bull. They just haven't blended their sub and mains properly. My pw-2200 is set up perfect, but if I change its location or turned the phase dial slightly then I can make my sub sound off or what somepeople describe as the sub being slow. I have listened to the pdr-12 and it is a great music/ht sub at a reasonable price. You can do better but at what $cost to your budget. Performance for the money, the pdr-12 is a great bargain. I'm not saying you have to spend more for the pdr-12 over the 10, I'm just trying to help you out so you buy what you really want in the first place.

 

[Rob Babcock]

The term "speed" is a pet peeve of Legacy guru Bill Duddleston. He said in an interview something to the effect that if "bass was faster, it would be treble." I'm guessing that when a person says a sub is "fast" or "slow" they're unwittingly describing room interaction or the phase being very out of step with the mains. Not all subs have phase controls, either.

At any rate, I'd take a good small sub to a bad large one any day. A good example I can give concerns two subs I had years back. I had a Cambridge Soundworks sub, sealed with an 8" driver. The subs was very clean & tight, and could go quite low (you get some room gain at the low freqs, but it's of course room dependant), althought it would bottom with a loud CLACK if you pushed it to high volumes. In contrast, I also had a 15" Advent sub (with a Sunfire amp). Only reason I bought it was morbid curiosity. It was being closed out for $150. The thing was a total POS- the enclosure was very thin partical board with pretty much no stuffing/damping! A rap on the top with your knuckles was like smacking a cardboard box! It would put out a lot of sound, but it didn't go terribly low and the bass was incredibly loose: it was the very definition of boomy. EQ couldn't help, nor was placement the problem.

Of the two, the Cambridge was much better (I actually returned it and got the sealed 12"- it was a superb sounding sub, but alas, it died on me some time later).

That said, a few years ago I bought a pair of Hsu TN-1220's, and I couldn't be happier. I've owned many subs over the years, but once I bought the Hsus I knew I was done sub shopping.

Not that I'll never try to upgrade...

 

[Unregistered]

Thank you gentlemen. I have a rant for you though Rob, what about those Tiny REL subs that are said to shake a room to pieces?? And the pinnacle baby boomer at 9 3/4 square pumps out serious thump. Is driver size the real deal or is it materials and workmanship in the actual driver?

I have a 13x16 room that has hardwood and an area rug. Dr. Hsu told me to place a sub in the corner next to the end of the couch. I really cannot afford a 12" sub. I know it would be good to do so but my money is kinda short for now. My only 12" choice is the Rava sub.

I think I will contact Hsu and order the new STF2 as it will fit my budget and others say it really rocks.

Thoughts from the experts??

 

[Rob Babcock]

To all outward appearances those lil' RELs look just like a Sunfire. I wonder if they're rebadged/made under liscense? I've not seen one in the flesh.

 

[3db]

Before ordering at least listen to the othere mentioned

PSB makes a good sub. I own the older subsonic5 and I'm very happy with it. Its ecellent in both HT and music applications,

 

[Unregistered]

Thats the thing I really like the PSB for its looks and reported sound quality. Though some have said it can sound loose. I have never heard anyone bad mouth Hsu yet, but the sub is damn ugly, just a semi large black vinyl box.

I would have to order the PSB but I would be able to pick up the Hsu at a local CompUSA. It is the exact sub as on the Hsu website and has the same 2/7 year warranty. Dr. Hsu told me to hide it at the end of my couch as an end table- maybe this will be the solution.

 

[3db]

Any sub will sound loose when over driven

As my last post indicated for Best Subs under $600, I overdrove my subsonic5 as well. Ports were chuffing and the bass sounded horrible. I figured I was working it too hard so I experimented with room placement. Found a new location, had to seriously dial down the volume on the sub as it now over powered the room. I got the slam I was looking for and got back the tight bass they're known to have.

Its too bad you don't know anyone who has one that you can audition. I'm sure you would walk away pleased with PSB.

 

[Unregistered]

Yup, I bet your right but there are dealers in my area within 50mi. By the way 3dB where did you end up placing your sub???

 

[Unregistered]

Yup, I bet your right but there are dealers in my area within 50mi. By the way 3dB where did you end up placing your sub???

My room is odd shaped but it turned out to be against one long wall and 2ft off the short wall