Paradigm - 15 minute listen :(

[Reorx]

Last weekend, the family went up to Prescott, AZ to see the mother-inlaw. While at the mall, we decided to stop by company X to listen to a few of the Paradigm and Warfdale speakers they have (and hopefully improve the WAF). Unfortunately, this is all they had setup:

Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7's, Signiture S8's.
Receiver: Yamaha 2700
Source: Escient Fireball supporting FLAC (model?)
Display: Sony VPL-VW100

I thought we were in for a treat, so I sat my wife and mother-inlaw in the 2 demo seats. And asked the guy to play some Jazz music.

The sound: Was...was...horrid. ?!?! I couldnt believe it. The voices sounded robitic, guitar sounded tiney, and it sounded overall..bright.
I thought, maybe it was that sound track, and had the sales guy switch it to another. No difference...switched to classical music, just as bad. I wanted to really test it out, and asked for organ music, but none was available.

So, I figured, maybe it's because of the room setup. I noticed there were NO acustical panels, and 1 side of the room was all windows. I had the sales guy close the curtens...little to no difference.

My wife and mother-inlaw left the room, the poor sound was bothering my wife's ears.

I left with 5 possible conclusions:
1. The system was not properly calibrated.
2. The room was not properly treated.
3. The Escient Fireball was the cause. compressed mp3's instead of using FLAC?
4. The speakers are a step down from mine, of which are dated ~1996/1997.
5. We are all to spoiled by constantly listening to DVD-A.

As we were talking and slowly inching towards the door, I asked the sales guy what he thought about RBH. He said the ones he had heard were crap, and that was a general consensus among those that worked there. Only RBH's higher end stuff was decent, but it cost almost twice as much as the equivilent Paradigm.

The only positive things I took away from that 15 minutes, is...the Sony 1080p Projector is pretty nice. Though, with any kinda ambient light, it looks like crap. And now my wife has a new found appreciation for our current setup.

 

[j_garcia]

IMO, it probably was the source that was the issue (either configured wrong, or using crappy tracks), however I don't find the Monitor line to be the best for music. ALWAYS audition with material you are familiar with and that you BRING with you.

 

[Reorx]

ALWAYS audition with material you are familiar with and that you BRING with you.

You speak the truth. It was a spur of the moment thing, or else I would of had a few dvd-a's and cd's with me.
Also, I grew up around, and playing instruments. So I KNOW what they are suppose to sound like, it's permenately ingrained in me. Thus the choice in jazz and classical music.

 

[Tomorrow]

Your experience with Paradigms paralleled mine, only I brought my own discs. I also compared them with Studios and a few other brands. I couldn't stand them...even the top-of-the-line Paras. The setup was in a boxy little room, so the setup may have had something to do with the performance. Yet other speakers sounded superior to my and my wife's ears. Amping was top-notch for all speakers.

But what can you do? You have to go with what you hear in the audition. I went there with the absolute intention to buy 5 Paradigm speakers and came away hating them (and wishing I could afford the Aerial 7B's I also heard).

Judging from some later AH threads on Paradigm's poor customer service, I guess I'm glad I passed on them that day.

 

[j_garcia]

IMO, the S8s really need some quality power to drive them, the kind of power that a receiver cannot fully deliver. I had the 40s for a week and a half for an in home audition and I threw everything I could at them vs the speakers I have now, and I guess the result is clear. The Studios are very good, they just weren't exactly what I was looking for.

Aerials... drool

 

[Rickster71]

So did you give a listen to both the Monitor 7's, and Signature S8's?
I hope it was something with their setup.
I'd hate to think a $600 pair of speakers and a $5,000 pair, both sounded equally bad.

I remember back some years ago, having a similar experience.
The short version was, the speakers were wired out of phase.

 

[j_garcia]

LOL. I listened to some Monitor 9s because the new versions had just come out, and I though, WOW, one side has a lot more bass than the other and just sounds totally different. Turned out he had an 11 hooked up on the right side and a 9 on the left.

 

[Tomorrow]

I only comp'ed all the Monitors with the Studios. (My bad if I indicated I auditioned the Sigs. I did not.) To my ears, there was little if any improvement from the M7's to the S40's. They both played my music as though through a hollow box.

The Sigs may be an entirely different critter. I dunno.

 

[Nuglets]

I'm wondering if there was some sort of surround mode activated on the receiver instead of Direct/Stereo. Your description doesn't sound like any of the Paradigm speakers I've ever heard at the dealer near me and they hardly have what you would call and acoustically correct room. I also own some of their speaker's and they to do not sound hollow or tinny. If you have the chance try go have a listen and make sure everything is set up properly with the receiver and everything else.

I'm not one to say that Paradigm speaker's are the best by any means but what you are describing sounds a lot like a setup issue to me. Good luck.

 

[j_garcia]

The Sigs are definitley in a different league from the Studios both in appearance and sound. Fewer dealers carry them, so I have only had the opportuninty to audition them once as the dealer is about 45min away.

 

[Tomorrow]

I'm wondering if there was some sort of surround mode activated on the receiver instead of Direct/Stereo. Your description doesn't sound like any of the Paradigm speakers I've ever heard at the dealer near me and they hardly have what you would call and acoustically correct room. I also own some of their speaker's and they to do not sound hollow or tinny. If you have the chance try go have a listen and make sure everything is set up properly with the receiver and everything else.

I'm not one to say that Paradigm speaker's are the best by any means but what you are describing sounds a lot like a setup issue to me. Good luck.

I really want to agree with you. I had heard M9's at a friends house the week before...and liked them for HT detail. That's why I was so ready to buy that day at the high-end audio store. But all speakers were driven by Krell or Rotel front-ends. All brands comp'ed were mounted next to each other. There were some that sounded really nice ... but not the Paradigms for some reason. In fact, the only speakers that sounded worse, were some Thiel 2.3's and some smaller pair of Thiels.

So you may have a point. Somewhere there may have been a setup problem. It wasn't immediately apparent to me, though.

(Nevertheless...I'm still saving for the Aerials or now Sonus Fabers! )

 

[Reorx]

The salesmen took the speakers out of surround mode, and put them in Stereo.
The Monitor 7's sounded better then the Signature 8's...but they both still had that tiny sound.

I think the problem was either somewhere in the setup, or with the escient server.

Since I go up to Prescott about once every 1-2 months, I'll stop by again with my own source material. They should also have finished setting up 3 more rooms, with a bunch more speakers.

Can someone recommend some good streneous pipe organ dvd-a?

Thanks.

 

[Tomorrow]

The salesmen took the speakers out of surround mode, and put them in Stereo.
The Monitor 7's sounded better then the Signature 8's...but they both still had that tiny sound.

I think the problem was either somewhere in the setup, or with the escient server.

Since I go up to Prescott about once every 1-2 months, I'll stop by again with my own source material. They should also have finished setting up 3 more rooms, with a bunch more speakers.

Can someone recommend some good streneous pipe organ dvd-a?

Thanks.

Sorry for the off-topic.....But I really dig Prescott...tried to move there several years in a row, but never could find work. You said "up" to Prescott. Do you live in equally beautiful Sedona?

Those of us living in the boonies are at a real disadvantage when shopping a/v. Nevertheless, if you get an opportunity check out other brands, if you can find them there, such as Aerial, Infinity, Vienna Acoustics, Monitor Audio, etc. There may have been a problem with the Para setup...or perhaps not. Check carefully.

Happy hunting.

 

[Reorx]

I live south of Prescott in the Phoenix Area.
Sedona is north of Prescott.

Well my speaker search has been cancelled. I just found out today that I am only getting $800 back from taxes. Not the $3500 I was estimating. Made too much money, and bumped myself into a different tax bracket.

So I get to put things off for another year. :_(

Maybe I can pimpout my wife. hmm...

On a side note, I just found my new test video that I'm going to get in HD and in DTS. Check it out

Well, I can always drive around and evaluate speakers.

 

[j_garcia]

Yup, cuz now you have plenty of time to audition before you actually buy

 

[Davemcc]

I had a similar experience with the Paradigm Signatures. Last week, I visited the local dealer and was prepared to be wowed by the sound. I was very disappointed. I felt like I wasn't hearing the music, but was hearing the box the music came from. However, I did like the Thiels sitting next to them. These were the only two sets of speakers in a dedicated room.

 

[robot]

I heard a pair of Studio 60s maybe 2 months ago and I was very disappointed. I agree that they had a flat tinny sound and weren't detailed at all. My first impression was that something wasn't set up right but the sales person thought that they sounded fine.

And then I heard the B&W 603s and I crapped my pants.

 

[emorphien]

You speak the truth. It was a spur of the moment thing, or else I would of had a few dvd-a's and cd's with me.
Also, I grew up around, and playing instruments. So I KNOW what they are suppose to sound like, it's permenately ingrained in me. Thus the choice in jazz and classical music.

I know what you mean! There are some instruments I know to listen for and expect a certain sound from since I also spent quite a bit of time playing in bands. If a speaker can't hit some of those dynamic highs you hear playing in an orchestra, it definitely loses out for me a bit even though I don't listen to a whole lot of orchestral material.

I've not had a chance to hear the Sigs but I'm not a huge fan of the Reference and Monitor lines.